Re: Emoria: World-Building OOC

[Dax]

I agree, I will be interested to see how long this RP will last XD

[Kalon Ordona II]

Here's an update on the histories of my country. I still have some PMing to do. Feedback and input would be most welcome! I'm seeking especially Silvone and Ryona's approval on the origin of humans. I've been brainstorming with Gunneh about it.

---

. : Origins of the Thendári : .
Long ago, twenty-six families of the Tawarwaith separated themselves from the Five Clans of Taurë Arda, the Woodland Realm. At the time, the Five Clans were forming a general consensus and agreement to unite under a common government. The twenty-six families openly opposed the idea, holding that centralization would stifle creative thinking and growth as a race. They reasoned that it was better to remain as a loose confederation and allow their differences to remain as such, for variety, they said, was the catalyst for growth. These ideas were met with hostility, for there had recently been many small wars between the Five Clans, and all longed for peace and unity. In the end, the twenty-six families decided that it would be best for them to leave and begin afresh in a new land. Their country would be different from the union of the Five Clans, and over time, perhaps, their separate paths would one day cross, and the twenty-six families would be proven right. Thus leave they did abandoning Taurë Arda, and for this they were named Avari, the Unfaithful. Much debate was made over the direction in which they ought to set out, but in the end they said: Let us follow the path of Anor the Day-star, that its light may guide us to our new home. And so they departed, into the west.

The Avari journeyed long and far. West they set out, and west they went, on and on and on, until at last the land ended and they found themselves upon the farthest shore, looking out upon a glassy sea, watching Anor the Day-star sink below the horizon, signaling the end of their journey. Here we will find rest, they said, and they made homes for themselves among the vast forests west of a spine of tall mountains, and they called that land Annûn, Sunfall.

And in the process of time, through perilous ages and years of glory, when their language changed and they began to serve the Light, the Avari changed their name from Unfaithful back to the Forest Folk. In their new language they became the Thendári, and their land, which had become a great island, was Irrihyánë, Sunfall as before, but their proper home they now knew as Aendrel, named for their graditude and their debt to the Spirits.

. : The Avari Transgression : .
Shortly after finding and settling their new home of Annûn, the Avari naturally took to their old ways of exploration and discovery, always searching their minds and their surroundings for things new and wonderous. They communed with the animals, they spoke with the trees. They drew wisdom from the rivers, the soil, and the stars. They came to worship the Day-star for its guidance and its life-giving power. They sought to engage with all things, great and small. Over the course of many years, they began to develop a skill for touching spirit to spirit and soul to soul. Meditation and ritual developed, and soon they discovered untold pools of wisdom beyond the earth, beyond the sky. To the pursuit of this wisdom and power they bent all their finest thought and skill. Eventually they said, Let us band together and find out once and for all whether the heavens will open for us. So a great ritual was prepared, wherein the greatest of the twenty-six families of the Avari would combine their strength and reach for the stars. They should have known better. In the end, though they succeeded, what came to pass was nothing they could have imagined.

The great ritual lasted for three days. Symbols were drawn in the earth and filled with blood. They danced unceasing, they chanted mystic words to focus their minds and unify their purpose. Herbs and flames and sweet-smelling smoke were everywhere. The most skilled voluntarily took herbs and lay down upon inward-facing altars to be struck unconscious. More blood, more chants, more smoke. In the final act, suddenly there was as it were a great draft in the sky above, levitating the altars and pulling the flames some distance into the air. All sound ceased as the world was sucked somewhat into the sky, like an upturned cup pulling on the surface of the water. In the following moment, all came crashing down again with force that put out the flames, sundered the altars, and broke elven bones. A screech of wrath was heard from the sky, and the Avari knew true fear.

"Death, hold back your hungered grasp!!" commanded a voice like the crash of many waters, the rush wind on the mountains, and the boom of thunder. "Dead, restrain your wand'ring feet!! Planes, maintain your sund'ring veils!!"

The Avari cowered prostrate, their faces to the ground, fearful unto death, not knowing what the terrible words might say or mean. Again the voice came, this time directed at the Avari, in their own language.

"Forest Folk, Unfaithful! As children walking by the mighty sea, you know not where you tread. Now your questing minds have taken you farther than is meet for your spirits to dwell, and you have wrought you know not what. Heaven's veil is torn, and death and dead do beg my leave to give them rein o'er flesh and bone. And more than this, in time there will be more who seek power or rumors of the same, twisted and hungered souls grasping for they know not what but greatness. This and more you have caused through folly and excess and ignorance and lust. For your transgression you must spend your lives to keep the rend which you have made. The future of your kind is forfeit."

The Avari remained immobile, unable to do aught but lie as dead to hear and understand what final words the speaker said. But suddenly and unexpectedly the voice became less harsh. "O Unfaithful, how rightly and yet wrongly were you named. Do not fear; your plight is known, and even now your future is not dark, surrendered though it be. You will not be left to fester in your trespass. I will send you one to guide your steps, one whom you have already known, and yet have not. He will teach you how to keep the veil.
"Now renew your hearts. The Forest Folk again I name you. Grow in strength and peace, and let your spirits rise and shine, and last until the world's end."

Then the voice departed, and the elven minds could take no more, but fainted there on the ground into a deep and dreamless slumber.

. : The Age of Illumination : .
The Avari awoke to a great light, brighter than the sun, situated in their midst. None took thought for how long they might have been asleep; their minds were overpowered by the recent events, and now by this golden star that had descended to earth. The star coalesced into a shining form, twice as large as any elf. The Avari were speechless, fearing to say aught lest they trespass further against these new and awesome revelations. So they waited, and the bright figure spoke.

"Thendári...." The male voice was soft, resonant and yet not deep. Where the previous voice had been terrifying, awesome, powerful, glorious, transcendent, this shining voice was comforting yet clear, penetrating fear and inspiring deeper thought in troubled minds. Though the Avari did not understand the language, the words were such that the meaning was understood. The elves knew that he had called them by their new name. "Do not be afraid. I am Alos, Lord of Light. Again the elves understood without knowledge. The Highest has sent me to you, to teach you how to keep the veil. Before we begin, I would learn your name. Though the Highest knows it, I do not. Come, speak and make yourself known to me." Though the language held no plurality, it spoke to each at once and inspired courage in their elven hearts. One by one, after a long and fearful pause, they began to speak their names before Alos, and Alos kept them all in memory, for when once the light shines upon a thing, then ever after is that thing remembered.

The coming of Alos ushered in a new age for the twenty-six families, who so revered and loved Alos that they kept their new name in his language, and they became Thendári. The Thendári sat with Alos among the mountains and heard what he would teach them. Of the nature of the Spirit realm; of the attributes of the Rift, as it had come to be known; of the duties required to tend and guard it. It was the thendári responsibility to let nothing pass from their world into the Spirit realm, and to let nothing from the Spirit realm enter into their world. Over time Alos instructed them in many things, until the Thendári were thoroughly able to tend and guard the Rift. Then Alos left them for a time, for he must tend to his own as well as the elves. But Alos was not aggrieved, for light seeks ever to shine in its abundance upon a new place, a new being, a new thing. It had been too long since Alos walked the invigorating terrain of the Material.

During Alos's absence, the Thendári carefully and zealously did nothing but tend their duty. Their daily lives meant little to them, and all hastened for their turn at the watch, to practice what skills they learned. Afraid of failure, they fervently bent themselves to the task. This went on for two decades, until the elves became more confident. Then Alos returned and found them faithful, and he was very pleased, and praised them for their diligence.

As the years passed, Alos taught the Thendári the key to the door of Light. The wonders that the elves beheld in Alos's realm left them forever seekers and upholders of the Light. Since Alos must keep charge of his people, called the Araltári, and the Thendári both, Alos eventually set up his throne near the portal atop the highest mountain in Annûn. Naturally this became the center of government for the Thendári. Twenty-six elders were elected to stand before Alos and represent the growing numbers of thendári. Palaces and a great temple were constructed around the mountain's crest. The mountain was named Irishana, the Mountain of the Sun, for the elves' language was changing, growing more like the language of the realm of Light. Thus passed the golden Age of Illumination. And at last, when the thendári language was complete, they changed the name of their land from Annûn to Irrihyánë.

. : Origins of the Sildári : .
It was during the Age of Illumination that a new creature appeared on the great island of Annûn. None knew its origin--and if Alos knew, he did not say. At first the thendári thought it was an elf, but it was soon apparent that it was not so. This creature was more muscular; it walked differently; it grew hair on its face, and its ears were rounded. And there was one more difference. Over the course of years, even as more of these creatures were discovered, first one and then others died. Not of blade or bow or beast, but of their own accord. The thendári marveled even in their sorrow for a life expired so young. Elven lives took thousands of years to end, and no thendári yet had tasted death. Taking pity on these new creatures, this new people, the Thendári set about to gather them together and help them grow. For they said, It may be that they die of yearning, having no place or people to call their own. At first the elves brought them to their forests, but the new people were not at home among the dense trees and multitudinous plants, the sounds of myriad birds and beasts, the dusky shadows of day and the pitch black of night. The Thendári, wasting no time, took them instead to a new land, one of hills and rivers and uncomfortably open spaces. The new people immediately reacted with pleasure and approval. By this time, the new people were reproducing, and the elves taught them to make clothes. Wondering how they might further lend their aid, they sought guidance from Alos.

Alos said that while elves were beings of Material, Water, and Earth, the new people were products of Spirit, Light, Material, and Shadow. He elaborated further that the thendári had become something different from other elves, that Spirit had been added to their being, that they were in fact immortal. As for the new people, Alos knew not why their mortality came so soon, but he did know that it was a part of who they were. Not knowing whether their kind had a true name, let alone what it might be, Alos called them Sildári.

. : The Fall of Ander : .
As the Age of Illumination progressed, the Sildári multiplied across the eastern face of Annûn, or Irrihyánë as some were beginning to call it. The Sildári did barbaric things, killing beasts and eating them, or marring the ground with instruments of sharpened stone, and other things any elf would find horrifying. Alos guided the Thendári to understand, however, so the elves merely observed as time went by. With the elves to supply them with tools and knowledge, the Sildári grew strong at an alarming rate. Spurning the elves' languages, both the old from Taurë Arda and the new from Alos, the Sildári formed their own speech, calling themselves "man" and "woman" and "humans." The humans began to build dwellings of brick and stone. The elves began to watch more and more with a horrid fascination as the human civilization emerged. By this time, few elves could stand the human lifestyle, and the peoples remained almost completely separate. At last, the humans combined themselves into a nation, and they named it Mandor, but the elves could only pronounce it as Ander.

Now, unbeknownst to all, the humans had a special power because of the Rift, and they thought it normal that they were able to hear the whispers of spirits, or ghosts, as they called them. The humans explored this ability, and they began to believe that the spirits were deceased family coming back from their second life. Then, two decades after the formation of Mandor, the humans began to construct an enormous tower. For they said, Let us rise higher and call our to the high spirits, to hear their wisdom more clearly and do them service, and they will make us great. So the tower grew higher and higher. When the Thendári found out and commanded them to cease, the humans became angry and chased them from their land with violent agression unlike anything the elves had experienced except from the most wild and dangerous of preying beasts.

Then Alos was roused in indignation, and the Thendári saw in their minds a second Rift, and this they would not allow, no matter the cost. In one day the elves rose up as one, arming themselves for battle, for where humans fought with knives and stones, elves knew well the use of blade and bow. There would be no second Rift. The sildári mortality would be visited upon them sooner even than their natural course. And so it was. The humans were massacred and routed before the teeming army of agile elven warriors. One battle after another, each one a vicious slaughter and bloody pursuit, drove the humans out of their land and east, toward the sea. In the madness of combat, over months and months of war, the elves thought to drive them to their deaths and drown their transgression in the waves. But humans are strong, and their will is stronger. Fleeing to the sea they carved crafts for themselves and escaped. It is said that some even swam to cross the sea.

The Thendári watched them go, safe in the knowledge that escape had not saved the Sildári from their mortal fate. Ander was no more.

. : The Paladins of Aendrel : .
((This will tie things in with other lands and tell of how the Paladins were formed.
The elves won't participate in the Illuria wars, but they'll eventually become friends with the humans of Vatienne.
If anyone wants to be a part of my country's history, please please send me a PM!))

. : The Rise of Äm : .
((This will tell how with thendári aid the humans from Vatienne came back to their roots and established the nation of Äm on Irrihyánë.
This will also tell about the following centuries of peace and prosperity, the development of human shaman-skills, and the expansion of Vatienne religion.))

. : The Zeal of Alos : .
((This will bring us to the present, telling more about my paladins and how Thendári are getting to know their old elven kin again, among lots of other ventures.))

[Dax]

Love the history there, as usual, Kalon.

The only thing I don't get is the The Rise of Am

Are they descandants from Vatienne or were the humans from your island the origin of the entire human race? Or...something? Or maybe it was just a typo?

Well, I guess if what you wrote isnt a typo, we'll be discussing it future PMs.
And so I wait.

[Guest]

Big post incoming. The History of Morgarath and his kingdom in long detailed format.

I give kalon credit for the inspiration to write down the story thing.

I personally oppose saying humans originated on that island of yours. You can say some did but not all.

[Guest]

I, too, am against saying that all humans originated from that island. Simply because you limit other people to what they can do. I've been working on the history of my people, and I had them originating from the landmass that we haven't opened up yet...but that is impossible if they came from your own island. I'm fine if you say a certain type of human arose there, but not that all humans arose there.

[Kalon Ordona II]

Ok, so a class of human, then.

Edit:
Yeah, that actually works better. Thanks for the feedback!

[Guest]

Do you want me to put it in History and Lore now, or wait until you finish it?

[Kathryn Lacey]

I don't think he meant the entire human race. I think he meant Gunneh's people who are inherently shamanic.

If I'm wrong, and the intention was for all humans to have originated from there, then I also oppose that, but I think I'm correct in surmising what Kalon meant.

I have no problems with psychic people originating there, but humans in general would have likely come to exist around the same time that the Elves and Morgarath did. I doubt that all seven planes would have been like, "Yeah. Let's just make this one type of creature." They would have had creative differences. Hence, the other races and colouring and all that fun stuff.


One thing I do oppose is this: "Alos said that while elves were beings of Material, Water, and Earth, the new people were products of Spirit, Light, Material, and Shadow."

All living creatures originating from the Material Plane have aspects from every other Plane of Existence: air, earth, fire, light, shadow, spirit, and water. I specifically said that when I wrote the Portal/Plane Lore, and everyone who got that PM were okay with that. At least, I figured they were when everyone told me, "Yeah. Sounds good." after reading it.

[Loki]

Map of Kvatch:

[Dax]

Niiice

Oh, and for those interested, I updated my character sheet with more info, updated Vatiennes Map and added my flag to it all.

[Guest]

Awesome and updated, Loki

@Kathryn: It did seem like that was what he had meant, but it didn't specifically state that...which can cause problems. So as long as that is specifically stated, then we are fine.
As far as the elements and such...it was probably *cough* skimmed *cough cough*

[Kathryn Lacey]

Skimmed or not, they agreed. That's like signing a contract without reading the fine print. It shouldn't be done, and people end up in messes because of it.

Well, it wasn't fine print. There was a whole paragraph dedicated to it. XD

[Bird of Hermes]

I must admit. It does start getting confusing sorting out everyone's world-spaces. I made mine short and a tad vague. You all have such complicated ones that it is hard to remember it all.

[Dax]

Hehe, thats why I myself go regularly check up to make sure I am on track with everyones World-Space and nation.

In my opinion, this is what makes this RP soo...awesome. XD

[Kathryn Lacey]

I agree with Dax. I haven't even read all of the world spaces because I'm waiting to finish my own before I start filling my head with others'. However, I really love all of the detail that's involved in this one world. ^^_^^

[Gadreille]

All living creatures originating from the Material Plane have aspects from every other Plane of Existence: air, earth, fire, light, shadow, spirit, and water. I specifically said that when I wrote the Portal/Plane Lore, and everyone who got that PM were okay with that. At least, I figured they were when everyone told me, "Yeah. Sounds good." after reading it.

I hope I don't start an argument here...

But I just want to say that while we are trying our best to allow everyone to have their own ideas, sometimes it isn't feasible, and rules have to be bent. This was done with Raptorman even though he had technically posted his information before the information about the planes was completed. That said, I just want to say that we will try our best to follow the rules that all of you have laid out for us, but if for some reason a later idea comes up that everyone likes but doesn't quite work, or if a second reading brings an issue to light that was previously missed, I hope that anyone and everyone would be willing to discuss it and possibly compromise.

I'm not trying to say that the structure of Emoria is made of jello or anything...more like bone, able to adapt to stress

Again, I'm not trying to agitate someone, and this really isn't personally toward Kathryn, I'm just using her post as an example for future issues that may arise.

*hopes that she doesn't get jumped in the forum index*

[Kathryn Lacey]

Whoa! I never meant it to be an argument. I was just pointing something to light that others had agreed upon only to write something else. I'm willing to compromise here if it's necessary. I just personally feel that it makes more sense the way upon which was seemingly agreed ((but possibly just skimmed? XD)).

Anyway, on another note, Raptor and I were talking, and I realized that there should be a name for the war that occurred that caused the portals to be made.

First, I should explain the war for those who don't want to read the lore or have yet to read it.

When all eight planes were created, it was easy to pass between them, for there were no real boundaries.

However, those of the Material Plane banded with those of the Shadow Plane to attempt to conquer the others. The Spirit Plane basically stepped in, smacked a bitch down, and created the boundaries between the planes to prevent the wars, and the portals were the only way to get to the other planes.

So yeah... Here are the names we've sort of come up with:

Origin Wars ((because this is the first real war that occurred))
Existence Wars ((because it occurred between the different Planes of Existence))
Plane Wars
Planes Wars
Planes of Existence Wars


If anyone has any better ideas, let us know, and if you like any of them, let us know. ^^_^^

[Gadreille]

Oh no, no argument! I just wanted to state that opinion because like Silvone said, it's better to state it now then end up in a huffy later with nothing to back yourself up.

I like Existence Wars myself. Perhaps War of Eight Planes, or War of Eight? I don't know.

[Dax]

I like either The War of Origin or The War of Existence, I dont mind.

[Guest]

Some rather brief history on morgarath. Hope this helps people out


Morgarath came into being soon after the 'origin war' Just using that as the title for now

The shadows created him because they couldn't interact with the world anymore and with his power he could pass though without the portal. In creating him they drained most of their strength. He appeared in what would later become the mountains of night. He enslaved the humans and some faithless elves who dwelt there and with his power currupted them. Turning them into the first of the races of the mountains.

He with his power tore the Dark Tower from the earth itself and erected it upon the tallest of the mountains. From there his power began to corrupt the mountains and all else that dwelt within them and they became known as the mountains of night. Over the years Morgarath bred his creations and in time he created an army of the currupted. Both highers and lowers. His army marched from the Mountains of night for the first time and in a battle with the elves it was defeated.

Years later another army marched forth and again was defeated in a brief war with the elves. Morgarath decided to leave the elves alone for a time and he stayed within his mountains creating new horrors and experimenting with forbidden magics.

Much later, the wars of illuria occured.

In the wars of Illuria. The first war was a war of great naval battles. The second war saw the first march of the Currupted since the time of the Race Wars. Morgaraths army fought it's way to the gates of vatienne itself before they were thrown back.

The third war of illuria saw an alliance between vatienne and the quendi push all the way to the Dark Tower itself. It was then that Morgarath himself descended from his tower and in a great battle destroyed the Papus of Vatienne and with his power managed to push back the armies. Despite the Mountains of night surviving the war they were weakened greatly and the last 2000 years have passed without more than little incidents from morgarath. At least until now.

Now with rifts of darkness beginning to form and the signs of the Mountains of night stirring once more things seem to have taken a turn for the worse.

[Kathryn Lacey]

My favorite is Existence Wars or Wars of Existence, but Wars of Eight Planes sounds spiffy, too. Wars would be plural because I'm sure there would have been skirmishes over probably a century or so and not just one continuous war. Of course, if that doesn't make sense, we'll discuss it and think of a more sensible way to go about it. ^^_^^

I think that it was agreed that the last Illuria War III was the one from which we started counting the years, right? Like how in real life we've been counting the years since the 1st A.D.

Anyway, I've PMed Dax about the alliance between Taurë Arda and Vatienne. I like the idea, personally. I'm also okay with the Mountains of Night having attacked Taurë Arda on several occasions.


So... I was talking and thinking, and I want to know what other people think "sentience" means and what that word should mean for this role play. In my mind, sentience has always been the same as the definition in my dictionary, "capable of feeling : having perception." In my mind, this includes animals like dogs and cats and bears etc. etc. as sentient.

However, Raptor had thought it meant only human-like intelligence, and the way the Orson Scott Card used the word in his Ender's Game series implies this same "human-like intelligence" meaning.

This relates because I have it that the trees of Taurë Arda are sentient. They aren't like Ents in that they can walk around and speak languages other than their own. They're more like the trees of the forests outside the Shire that basically kind of attacked the hobbits as they traveled through before Tom Bambadil saved them.


Okay. One last thought:

Dax has probably PMed most of us to talk about our deities. In his PM's to me, he mentioned the rules concerning these deities as described by our GM's:

Spoiler:

With those rules in mind, it would be preferable if players when discussing these matters OoC would refer to their people as simply believing in these deities. I noticed that someone at one point said that no matter what others believed, what their nation believed was how it was. Instead of wording it that way, could it be worded more like, "No matter what other nation's citizens believe, my nation's people believe their deity is everywhere, in everything." or something like that.

Another thing, with Kalon's people, their deity is actually living in front of their eyes. This may already be how it is because it hasn't actually been said or discussed, but: instead of having Alos be a real, live deity, would it be possible to just have that person of Light be simply one living being from the Plane of Light and not a real deity? Having people worship him as such is fine, but if he's a real deity, that kind of makes it less possible to have other deities all over the world.

You know?


Okay. I just wanted to get those thoughts out there.

[Loki]

I personally like the ring to "The War of Eight Planes", has a nice ring and sounds quite epic.

[Bird of Hermes]

1. No one god is "factually" higher than another
2. There shall be no "factual" godly interference with the world.
This, of course, meaning that, although your nation may think or say that their god is higher than all of the others or is the one true god, it is not factually proven.

I like this. The Ionairus may believe their Queen of the Crows is a goddess, but I highly doubt anyone else would.

and the way the Orson Scott Card used the word in his Ender's Game series implies this same "human-like intelligence" meaning.

This is how I use the word too.

I personally like the ring to "The War of Eight Planes", has a nice ring and sounds quite epic.

I like this too, but all the suggestions are fine.

[Guest]

I think honestly that that sounds to long. "The origin wars" Seems to flow better and doesn't have all the extra stuff in there.

War of 8 planes just seems to long and wordy. Typically wars are given a name that is easier to say.


In the case of Morgarath. We all know he isn't a god, though he is believed to be one by those he currupted/created.

[Kathryn Lacey]

Well Existence Wars is still my favorite, and it's short and sweet and flowy ((in my opinion)).

Yeah. I'm fine with them worshiping him despite his not really being a deity. The Quendi of Taurë Arda worship the trees as lesser deities, but they really aren't divine. They're just sentient and live very looooong lives.

[Buzzwulf]

I think I would go with the "War of Planes". Just my two cents.

[Gadreille]

Dax has probably PMed most of us to talk about our deities. In his PM's to me, he mentioned the rules concerning these deities as described by our GM's:

Spoiler:

With those rules in mind, it would be preferable if players when discussing these matters OoC would refer to their people as simply believing in these deities. I noticed that someone at one point said that no matter what others believed, what their nation believed was how it was. Instead of wording it that way, could it be worded more like, "No matter what other nation's citizens believe, my nation's people believe their deity is everywhere, in everything." or something like that.

Another thing, with Kalon's people, their deity is actually living in front of their eyes. This may already be how it is because it hasn't actually been said or discussed, but: instead of having Alos be a real, live deity, would it be possible to just have that person of Light be simply one living being from the Plane of Light and not a real deity? Having people worship him as such is fine, but if he's a real deity, that kind of makes it less possible to have other deities all over the world.

You know?


Okay. I just wanted to get those thoughts out there.

Yes, I'm sorry but I felt that it was most appropriate to follow these rules. That way there can be no one with a "higher God" or "actual God", and all theologies, at least on a broad scale, can be treated equally.


This rule may force some alterations, but I'm going to stick by it, for various reasons (if you want to hear these reasons you may PM me). I like Kathryn's suggestion of how to compromise the situation.

I'm also sorry I did not announce this information via the OOC, but I honestly didn't think about it before Dax's Pantheon project, and I figured Dax would be letting everyone know.

EDIT: I will have to get back to you on the tree question, I think that deserves Silvone's attention as well as a bit of research.

EDIT EDIT: Gosh I have so much to say. Sentience seems to be applied mostly to humans, but since we are in a fantasy setting I would imagine that many animals (and trees) have spirits that are different than what we have on Earth...Like Corbina's raven, for example. On earth, it would just be a bird, but in Emoria...it is more than just a bird. It is a familiar. Therefore I believe that your trees may be considered sentient, but I would still like to have Silv's opinion since he is the religious studies guy.

[Hello Danger]

@Silvone, I like that idea. Bad blood from past skirmishes, it works. I also may PM you with a hidden side plot idea...
<.<
>.>
top secret stuffz! lol!

@Loki, I returned your PM.

@Everyone, I'm not sure if anything has been mentioned, or if anyone else had any ideas for how we're going to start this thing off. I have one. I'm not trying to step on anyone’s toes. I'm just throwing an idea out there. You guys and gals can expand on it or toss it to the side, whichever.

A mass kidnapping!

Here's the idea.

Morgarath hires the pirates and the mercenaries to kidnap key/political figures from around each major nation of Emoria. While all the respected nations' backs are turned, Morgarath makes an attempt at Nolwë 's portal. (Assuming here the plot calls for Morgarath needing the portal, I just figured it would.)

The people of Nolwe can answer the call repelling the attack, or the Heroes of the Shire can show up just in time to save the day, or something. The idea is that it would reveal Morgarath's possible return (if that's not already known). Maybe rally all the nations together, and start this thing off right, kickass!

What really happens after the kidnapping can be determined through posting... but I thought it sounded like a fun and cool way to start it off. This is just an idea, and a rough one at that.

Sooo... ?

[Guest]

Okay...lots to catch up on.
Reverse order.

@Hello Danger: Sounds good to me Looking forward to that PM! I also like the plot idea, but we would need to hear from Raptorman and Kathryn, since it revolves mostly around them (his character and her lands). The only plot idea we've had so far is that everyone would meet together to discuss what to do about whatever danger they are facing. Rather vague...

Concerning the names for the war -- I personally like either Existence Wars or Origins War. Existence wars is plural, which would hint at several wars, but I don't like the word Existence. I prefer Origins, because it implies more that the way the world is set up now, the way the myriad races of Emoria have grown used to, is because of these wars. Unfortunately, Origins War does not imply multiple battles fought over a great period, though it could broadly encompass all of those battles as a single important event. So my vote goes to Origins War, but I could definitely settled for Existence Wars.

Concerning sentience -- Sentience is normally applied only to beings with the capacity for logic and emotion. Many creatures in our own world can harness this to a certain degree, but they are considered semi-sentient. Full sentience is usually considered to be the degree to which humanity has ascended. Plants, normal plants, are not sentient to any degree. Most bugs are not sentient to any degree. They have logic, but not really much in the way of emotion. And they have no way of utilizing either as a tool for advancement. Chimpanzees are only semi-sentient, though that is close to borderline. They have logic and emotion, and they both work as tools for them, but not toward advancement.

Therefore, your trees would only be considered semi-sentient (in the true use of the word as far as I've learned it) because, despite their capacity for logic and emotion, they can't use it to advance in any way (culturally, mentally, or otherwise). I hope that helps. We don't, as Ryona already said, have to stick with this standard convention. I just wanted to share my knowledge of the meaning of the word.

Concerning Deities -- There are no living deities. There can be no absolute proof of living deities. Natural phenomena, such as Sighlent has described her species having interaction with, is perfectly acceptable as a worshipped form of a deity. It may be a real phenomena, but its status as a deity is confined to those who believe it to be so.

The same goes for Alos. He may be believed to be a deity, but again we can have no proof. It crosses too many boundaries and brings up too many limitations concerning other characters and their beliefs. He can be a spirit in whatever form he chooses, but not an actual deity. They can believe he is, and he can parade around claiming to be one, but I simply cannot allow any statement of fact that he is. I don't want to drop the hammer on this, but I have to. I'm sorry if it conflicts with anyone, but overall it will add more freedom to all of our cultures and world-spaces.

@Everyone: Thank you so much for how much work you guys have put into this! I'm honestly surprised at the amount of attention this thing is getting. When I first had the idea, I had only hoped it would be as popular as it has become. I never really expected it to. I'm very greatful that you all feel this is a story worth putting so much time and effort into.
And as far as group efforts go, you are all doing a wonderful job. We've had a few small issues to be sure, and there will definitely be more, but everyone has done great so far

[Loki]

For the time being, Kvatch is undergoing lots of expanding as far as details are concerned. As such, I felt it would be easiest if I just put up a link to my archive thread where I'm doing all of my updating. I will let you know when I fell that I am done revising, but until then here is what I have so far.

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