Re: FOG Book Club

[Kathryn Lacey]

I wasn’t waiting for anyone else. I just didn’t have time this weekend. I’ve realized that weekdays are my best computer days because I can do whatever while my love is at work. However, on the weekends, I get to spend all of my time with him. I’ve decided to just play catch-up on the Monday/Tuesday after the weekend discussion because it works best for me that way.

"He sat beside him and stroked his pale and tangled hair. Golden chalice, good to house a god. Please don't tell me how the story ends."

Is this a turning point in the book for the reader? I wonder what the significance of this is. Up until this point, we knew nothing about "the man" and "the boy", and yet in this sentence, we learn that the boy has pale, blonde hair (at least, that's what I'm taking away from this). Is it to make the characters more real to us? To prove that they have an identity? The last part of the line confuses me, though.

I think the last part is mostly just the man worrying that the end of the story won’t be good for either of them. He doesn’t want his son to die some horrible death. They’re survivors, and the man wants it to stay that way.

Another part that strikes me is the section describing the man giving the boy a flute, and the boy playing. Is the "formless music" due to the boy's lack of training? Or is it yet another play on the fact that everything they used to know is gone, that there are no more "hit tunes" that everyone knows and would play on their instruments?

I thought it was really sweet that the father made the boy a flute, something with which the boy could entertain himself in a world like this. My first thought with the “formless” music was that the boy didn’t really have any training, so there really wasn’t a tune.

I've reached the scene with the mansion-like house. The man really should learn to listen to the boy sometimes...This scene kind of freaks me out a bit, because I guess that's what it means to "stockpile" in this day and age

This scene freaked me out, too. I knew as soon as I read that there were piles of clothes and mattresses and things like that lying around the house that people lived there. I was worried that it would be one of the blood cults, but I really didn’t grasp the severity of the situation until he opened the locked door.

---

Kalon, your thoughts on what happened in this second of the book are really interesting, and I think you’re right. The book has really started to move more quickly and to feel less monotonous since actual events began to happen. It’s really becoming more interesting with the different points ((fear, severe low points, an extreme high point, etc.)).

This one is just after the boy fears the second trap door after having experienced the human meal-stock.

But when he bent to see into the boy's face under the hood of the blanket he very much feared that something was gone that could not be put right again.

This seems to be about the meal-stock shock. Do you think he means a kind of loss of innocence? Seeing something like that has to have a pretty profound effect. He seems to have accepted that they couldn't help those people, because they would have been eaten too.

When I first read that quote, I actually thought it meant there was something that had been severed between the father and son. Like… the son was disappointed in his father for not even trying to help, for trying to selfishly survive. However, I believe the loss of innocence thing makes way more sense.

The dog that he remembers followed us for two days. I tried to coax it to come but it would not. I made a noose of wire to catch it. There were three cartridges in the pistol. None to spare. She walked away down the road. The boy looked after her and then he looked at me and then he looked at the dog and he began to cry and to beg for the dog's life and I promised I would not hurt the dog. A trellis of a dog with the hide stretched over it. The next day it was gone. That is the dog he remembers. He doesn't remember any little boys.

What the what? I assume it's them before the mother killed herself, back when there were three shots in the gun. And I guess it's the father talking--dreaming, perhaps? But what's going on with the dog? And what's the boy who the boy doesn't remember? And what's going on with this previous dog? How do you have a trellis of a dog? Was there a dog that was a pet the boy had? Did they kill it? Did they eat it? What happened to the father promising not to hurt it? Why is the mother leaving somewhere? Is she taking the dog with her? What, did she skin it and stretch it over a trellis? How is that not hurting it? How did it disappear the next day? Did they kill it and eat it and throw it away, despite promising the boy it would be alright? What am I missing?

I thought he was referring to the dog they’d heard in the town and the boy they’d seen in the same place, but if there are three cartridges in the pistol, then this has to be before the wife killed herself. I can’t explain anything else, but I think what he means by “trellis of a dog” is that the dog was so thin that it was nothing more than bones with its skin stretched taut over it. I think the trellis part refers to the bones that he can see. If you look at what a trellis is, it’s a wooden structure with ribs of a sort all around it.

I don’t think the mother left with the dog. At the point when she left, they only had two bullets left in the gun, not three, so this would have had to have been before she left. I think the father kept his promise not to harm the dog. I have no idea to what he’s referring when he speaks of the other little boy.

---

Why is the boy so scared of the door? Did his father possibly attempt to kill him after putting him in a grave? Did they break into one a while back? Was his mother put in one that he saw?

I honestly don’t believe the father has ever tried to kill him or his son. He’s fought far too hard to survive even after his wife gave up the will to live. I think the boy was simply able to reason that people lived in that house and that no good would come of them being in it. I think he was afraid of what was on the other side of that door – as we learned he had every right to be, so when they came to a similar door, the boy was probably making the mental comparison, and the fear would have returned.

---

It is the father remembering a time before the death of the mother, and they came across the dog. And he is telling us that this is why this new dog was such a big deal, because he has seen one before, and it followed them for two days, and he got attached to it. The "trellis of a dog" means the dog was naught more than bones with skin over it. It was starving. The boy the boy doesn't remember means that the son has never seen a little boy, so why is he all of the sudden thinking he is seeing one? It is the equivalent of a ghost in the Man's eyes.

Hm… Chances are that the boy has seen his own reflection, so he knows how little boys in general look. It’s possible that the son really saw a little boy or that he craves a companion his own age so badly that he thinks he sees one.

Come to think of it, isn't it funny how we've all kind of accepted that those people, whether a few or dozens, were just food? I'm creeping myself out with how little I think about the fact that they were once, and essentially still are, people. Food for thought.

I actually don’t feel as if I’ve accepted that. I was kind of horrified when I read about what was down there, all of those people begging for help. I was surprised that they didn’t even try to help, but at the same time, I understand that they would have died. I’m actually really surprised that those people down there didn’t just run for the stairs and try to book it. I mean, obviously not all of them could, and they would probably have been very weak, but like any source for food, they have to be nourished, too, so they should have had a little energy. They wouldn’t just be completely starved, or they would have been a crappy food source. I’m just surprised that it seemed like none of them tried to make a run for it. I felt really bad for them, and I found myself wishing that I could somehow help these fictitious, tortured people even if I know that I wouldn’t have done a thing if I’d been in the man and boy’s situation. ^x_x^

---

One thing I think is really interesting is that in a world like this, the man is still able to raise his son to be decent even if he’s not directly teaching it. This world is the only thing the boy has ever known, but he still cares about the welfare of other people despite the father basically trying to instill the idea that every man must fend for himself. I wonder how it happened.

[Gadreille]

IBecause of this line, unlike you Ryona, I do not simply see it as food storage, although I do understand the point you are trying to make.

I actually don’t feel as if I’ve accepted that. I was kind of horrified when I read about what was down there, all of those people begging for help. I was surprised that they didn’t even try to help, but at the same time, I understand that they would have died. I’m actually really surprised that those people down there didn’t just run for the stairs and try to book it. I mean, obviously not all of them could, and they would probably have been very weak, but like any source for food, they have to be nourished, too, so they should have had a little energy. They wouldn’t just be completely starved, or they would have been a crappy food source. I’m just surprised that it seemed like none of them tried to make a run for it. I felt really bad for them, and I found myself wishing that I could somehow help these fictitious, tortured people even if I know that I wouldn’t have done a thing if I’d been in the man and boy’s situation. ^x_x^

Eheh... Looks like its just me then. I need to remember to keep my desensitized thoughts to myself. I noticed my brain already categorized them as dead, or going to be dead, or perhaps less than human; much the way one would see a zombie movie and categorize the infected as something other than human.

I think that they could not run. Most of them were missing limbs, they probably weren't fed. They were crawling toward the man and the boy, I think that was all they could muster.

I wasn’t waiting for anyone else. I just didn’t have time this weekend. I’ve realized that weekdays are my best computer days because I can do whatever while my love is at work. However, on the weekends, I get to spend all of my time with him. I’ve decided to just play catch-up on the Monday/Tuesday after the weekend discussion because it works best for me that way.

That's fine, whatever works best. I didn't assume everyone was just waiting, but posted to be sure that no one was, since this is the first time we've ever attempted this

[Kathryn Lacey]

Posted on Mon 6 Jun - 16:30

Eheh... Looks like its just me then. I need to remember to keep my desensitized thoughts to myself. I noticed my brain already categorized them as dead, or going to be dead, or perhaps less than human; much the way one would see a zombie movie and categorize the infected as something other than human.

I think that they could not run. Most of them were missing limbs, they probably weren't fed. They were crawling toward the man and the boy, I think that was all they could muster.

What's the fun in keeping our opinions to ourselves? This is a book club and all ideas are welcome. I don't think you're a bad person for considering them already dead. After all, just because I couldn't fully accept it, it didn't mean that I didn't realize that at least some of them were as good as dead. The guy with stumps where his legs once were was a goner for sure, and I understood that. I mostly felt that at least a few of them could have survived.

They would have been shitty meals. I'm not big on meat, but muscle is the what's to be eaten in any animal, and it's not properly fed, the muscle is going to deteriorate, right?

I see what you mean with the zombie movies. In my mind, as soon as someone is infected in a zombie movie/show, they need to be put down before they become a real problem. The difference for me is that zombies lose their rationality, their consciences, essentially their souls. They are no longer people. Hell, they're not even animals. They're just parasites who feed and feed without any end in sight. I've never seen a zombie content to stop eating when it should be full. If there's another meal in sight, they tend to attack.

Those people in the cellar were still people to me. They may have been someone's future meal, but to me, they were still feeling, thinking people. I had forgotten that some of them were actually crawling toward the man and son and not walking, so I guess you're right that they were as good as dead. I know there really wasn't anything anyone could do. I'm surprised they couldn't find a way to save themselves - even if it meant ending their own lives.

EDIT
So, I was just wondering what the last words of the last paragraph for this section are going to be since I have a different version of the book. I've already read about forty pages, but I wanted to stop before I got ahead of the game.

[Gadreille]

Spoiler:

[Kathryn Lacey]

Sweet! Thanks! This means I only have about eight more pages to read.

[Gadreille]

Wow! I haven't even started this week's reading. I'm hoping to play catch up on friday. Been super busy all week!

[Kathryn Lacey]

Well, I had to go to Planned Parenthood to get my birth control since I still don't have insurance in Utah ((my application probably won't even go through until the 16th)), and I had plenty of time to read while I was waiting to be called into the back, waiting to be seen while in the back, and waiting for my ride.

[Gadreille]

Oh gosh, I know what you mean...I remember having to go there to get a test positive for pregnancy, and I got harassed by people outside about abortion -_- I told them to back off and then yelled "I'm keeping it!" but I wished I would have argued a bit more, because what they were doing was awful.

Buuut I digress

[Lara]

Hey, so, I'm going to be late on this week's book response as well. I've got work all weekend and I don't know if I'll be able to get any reading in on the side. ): I'll post as soon as I can.

[Kalon Ordona II]

I was almost done with the reading yesterday, but it was my sister's birthday so I wasn't able to finish or post.

Thoughts coming soon.

[Kalon Ordona II]

I guess I'll start us off, then. ^_^

This third quarter seems like a cross between 1 and 2. It's a bit of a return to the plodding along the road, but it also has some elements of scary-place/supply-place as in quarter #2.

The boy seems to be growing up. I see him developing larger parts in the conversation, having more to say. Grisly sights like the human veal probably aren't helping. I have to give the author kudos on that one. It sure has the shock element. What's the worst sight a rational human could possibly see? A headless, gutted human infant being charred on a spit over a campfire. Probably gives people nightmares. It didn't really affect me much, since I've thought along the humans-as-food lines before.

Where did you ever have a chance to come up with such morbid thoughts, Kalon? xD Well, I used to work at a deli, doing things like folding chicken wings. After a while, creative imagination that I have, things start to mutate. What if aliens did similar things to humans, for example? Anyways, enough of that.

Does anyone remember what the boy is referring to on page... *looks it up* 200.

The boy said: If we had that little baby it could go with us.
Yes. It could.
Where did they find it?
He didnt answer.
Could there be another one somewhere?
I dont know. It's possible.
I'm sorry about what I said about those people.
What people?
Those people that got burned up. That were stuck in the road and got burned up.
I didnt know that you said anything bad.
It wasnt bad. Can we go now?
Okay.

Is he talking about the people in the semi trailer? I don't think he saw those. I forget who else it could be. Wasn't there a forest fire that they had to wait in and hope no trees fell on them? Is that what he's talking about? I don't remember him saying anything that stood out.

Anyway, another feature in this quarter is that there are a few time-skips. He's moving us along on the road. He knows we get the idea; now it's time to focus on the objective: getting to the coast. He's free to skip the trudging and get to where stuff happens.

I find it interesting that, inadvertently or not, these quarter divisions are really standing out as distinct from each other. The first one was all foresty-mountain-hiking-intro; the second was Blood Cult and development; third is a bunch of new landscapes as they move along; and fourth is probably going to comprise the climax and daynumawn (denouement). Very nifty the way it seems to be working out for our analyses and discussions. ^^

I guess that's all I've got for now, but I'll almost certainly think of a bunch more after hearing all your thoughts.
The pace seems a bit slower, but the author hasn't lost me. Each new situation brings them a little closer to their goal, and they're all surprisingly different. For all the dull, repetitious drudgery of an ash-covered world, we sure see quite a variety of sights and circumstances. ^^

[Kathryn Lacey]

Grisly sights like the human veal probably aren't helping. I have to give the author kudos on that one. It sure has the shock element.

I wasn’t actually that shocked by it. As soon as I read that the woman was pregnant, I thought, “I wonder if they’d eat the baby?” Of course, then I was like, “Maybe not. It wouldn’t have much meat to it, right? They are all starving. Though that last reason would probably be why.

I do find myself curious about what the mother thought of it. Was she okay with it if it meant her survival? Was she torn up by the idea of eating her child? We’ll probably never know.

Does anyone remember what the boy is referring to on page... *looks it up* 200.

As they were traveling in the third section of our reading, they came across burned bodies of people in the road, remember? The boy asked why they didn’t just leave the road as it was all melty and whatnot, and the father told him it was because everything around them was already on fire. I think the boy felt bad for implying that the people were stupid for staying on the road.


I think you’re right about the pace being slower again, but I’m not lost, either. I think I’ve really resigned myself to this writing style, and I’m better used to it.



As for my personal thoughts, I thought it was really commendable what that little boy did for that older man, giving him food they really couldn’t spare. Where did the boy learn to do such good things for other people? As I said in the past, the father has taught him that their lives are more important than anyone else’s, but the boy continues to care about people who are starving and hurt and frightened. It’s so incredible!

I think that man should have thanked the boy. I mean, it honestly would have taken less energy and less breath to give a simple “thank you” than it took him to explain why he was going to refuse to give it. It’s sad that in this post-apocalyptic world, even when someone does something good for another, that person appears ungrateful for it.

[Lara]

"He'd been ready to die and now he wasn't going to and he had to think about that." (That line just really stuck out to me.)

Amazing, that even though the man has given up on God and religion, the boy instinctively knows how to pray and chooses to do so inside the bunker, though to him he's just thanking the people for the food they've been given.

I like how he tells the boy that he's not perfect, by admitting that sometimes he forgets to be "on the look out" even though he thinks they always should. In fact, I like that in general about him, how he keeps himself down to earth for the boy, not building himself up to be any more than he is, just an average person trying to survive.

I wonder how long it took the man to teach the boy how to play checkers. Probably not long.

I feel like there's some sort of significance to the boy throwing the flute away. So what we witnessed earlier in the book really was "the last music on earth", or whatever the saying had been. I can't put together what the meaning of this might be though. Any thoughts? I'm sure it's right there on the surface.

Interesting that we get to know the old man's name. I was kind of happy when the man agreed to give him some food, whereas in the past when the boy's asked he's said no.

"I always believe you. I have to." A sad, but true thought. The man is the the only thing the boy can truly believe in, know that the man won't lie to him, and will help him out.

The scene where they come across the dead in the road and the tar..."So strangely untroubled." It's like the boy's preparing himself already for his father's death, knowing that when the man dies, the boy will have to continue on, and will be forced to see all the things that the man's been trying to keep him from seeing all this time.

"Okay." "Okay? Just like that?" "Well. You're not going to listen to me." Is this one of the first 'arguments' we've seen in the book?

I feel like I'm watching the boy grow up in this segment. Kalon says it about right.

I do find myself curious about what the mother thought of it. Was she okay with it if it meant her survival? Was she torn up by the idea of eating her child? We’ll probably never know.

Though all we can do is guess, my thoughts (after wondering if the woman had really had the baby that quickly) were that maybe the people hadn't been scared away by the man and the boy. Maybe they had thought they were so desperate that they needed to eat the infant to survive, but after actually starting to cook it they chickened out. I mean, they took the time to clear out the entire camp aside from the still-cooking fire. And they had to have survived somehow while trekking, in order for the woman to actually be pregnant, so maybe they hadn't yet turned to cannibilism. Maybe.

[Gadreille]

Kathryn, it was awesome that the little boy was so giving. The poor dad is stuck between trying to keep them alive and remaining "the good guys". Not an easy balance in a world such as this.

I didn't really catch on to the boy's growth. I mean, I must have realized it somewhere in the back of my mind, but I didn't really think on it. Thanks for pointing that out, everyone.

As for the baby...any number of things could have happened. Chances are she had a stillbirth; I can't imagine her having enough to eat to keep the baby alive. So, out came a dead baby, and maybe someone said, "well, we're starving, and this is all we've got." I like your idea Lara, though I don't know if I believe it. Chances are the rest of their camp was already packed and ready to run if necessary. I would like to hope that they did just decide not to do it, but they did already cook the thing, and while I believe it was a stillbirth I can't know for sure If it wasn't a stillbirth, than deciding you can't do it after already killing it and cooking it doesn't mean much.

[Kathryn Lacey]

Lara, I had forgotten about the flute. I think maybe it had some kind of significance, too, but I'm not sure what.

Hm... That's a nice thought, like Ryona said, but I honestly think they would have eaten it had the man not shown up.

Ely wasn't actually the old man's name. He didn't want to give it, remember? It was interesting that names were asked, though, considering the fact that we never got the names of the man or the boy.

Ryona, it would be nice to know if it was a stillborn child because it does make sense. It just seems really awful that someone could eat their own child. I don't even like children, and I wouldn't be able to eat my baby ((or anyone else's, for that matter)).



I just remembered something... Did anyone else realize that the boy's mother was named? The narrator called her Kim. It's the first legitimate name we've gotten in this entire book.

[Gadreille]

Oh, I forgot to respond to the flute thing. I honestly was dumbstruck with it. Why would he throw it away? Was it because music is a useless commodity, and he was growing up?

The mother's name was Kim? I must have missed it. I was very distracted reading this portion.

[Lara]

Yeah, I missed that as well, though at one point I thought I saw "Kim" and it actually said "Kin". It was during the man's delirious dream sequence.

[Kathryn Lacey]

Damn! I looked it up again, and realized that Lara is right. Stupid n's and m's resembling each other. ^;_;^

[Gadreille]

Well I don't want to dance in your sorrow but I am glad to know that I wasn't so out of it that I missed a detail like that!

[Kalon Ordona II]

Good thoughts, Lara!

Oh! Remembered something else. The boy had a dream that the father was asleep and wouldn't wake up. Can anybody say Foreshadowing?

[Gadreille]

Good thoughts, Lara!

Oh! Remembered something else. The boy had a dream that the father was asleep and wouldn't wake up. Can anybody say Foreshadowing?

*spoiler alert*

Spoiler:

[Guest]

\

[Gadreille]

Poor, poor Silvone I'm going to leave you on the member list in case later on you have time to jump back in.

Lara, this means you get to pick the next book, and you probably want to do so very soon so that we have time to get it before Monday

[Lara]

I do? Oh snap.

Hmm... I know what book I want to have everyone read, the only issue is I don't have it up with me. Can I shift down the list at all? I haven't been able to get to the library yet, so I have no idea what I'd even be able to get a hold of yet.

[Gadreille]

You can pass your turn to Kalon, and then you can ask The Ghost Writer if you may go before him. If you decide to do that let me know so I can warn Kalon that he's up.

[Lara]

I'm going to have to pass whether or not Ghost Writer would let me go ahead of him, so go ahead and let Kalon know. Sorry, again, it's just that I really have no access to books that are not currently in my apartment (none of which are book-club worthy) until if/when I can get to the library, which won't be until Friday at the absolute earliest due to my work schedule.

By the way, if I can't get access to the library, I may have to pass on participating with the next book in general. =/ Just a heads up.

[Gadreille]

I was wondering that Hopefully you can find access to whatever Kalon chooses.

Er, that said. Kalon, you are up!

[Kalon Ordona II]

Ooh, cool! That's awesome, because I just ran across a book a day or two ago, and thought, whoa, I'm totally picking this for Book Club. I hope I don't forget. And now it's my turn! xD

It's one of the pioneer works of the fantasy genre, back in 1924, before it was even the fantasy genre. ^^ The book is:
The King of Elfland's Daughter by Lord Dunsany

I think it'll be fun to have a look at our roots, so to speak. We all know Lord of the Rings; let's see what else helped light the torch we carry onward.


Week 1: Chapters 1 through 9
Week 2: Chapters 10 through 18
Week 3: Chapters 19 through 26
Week 4: Chapters 27 through 34 (end)

[Gadreille]

Awesome, I will link the above post to the first page, so please update it with the reading pace, and I will scurry to the library to try and find it!

[Kathryn Lacey]

Kalon, did you find that at Barnes and Noble by chance, or did you find it some other way? My library doesn't have it, so when my love gets home, I'm going to talk to him about getting it on Amazon if Barnes and Noble doesn't have it.

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