Re: FOG Book Club

[Kalon Ordona II]

The King of Elfland's Daughter
by Lord Dunsany
Week 1: Chapters 1-9

First thought:
This book is the missing link between the Fairy Tales of yore and the Fantasy Stories of the modern world!

It reads like a fairy tale, but it has the kind of language that looks at common things in new ways. It's not a buffet, it's a pre-planned series of small courses. The author spends a lot of time focusing on things, but the pace is steady and consistent so that it doesn't feel slow.

I found it amusing in the preface that he actually apologizes to the readers for featuring a strange and fantastic land that is not their own. This is before the fantasy genre existed. People hadn't yet gotten used to the idea. Can you imagine? xD

In the story, at first I thought it was quite cliche'd. Of COURSE she falls in love with him as soon as he appears and KILLS ALL HER GUARDS. But then we saw that she was actually hoping for that to happen someday, and had been for a long, long, long "time."

I liked how the King of Elfland at first seems possessive, but you see later on how much he loves his daughter. He doesn't seem like a villain.

In fact, there don't really seem to be any villains in this story. If there is a villain, it's the one inside each of the characters. They're their own worst enemies. The Elf King--like movie-Elrond, now that I think about it--just doesn't want to see his daughter lost to the ravages of time. It looks like things aren't working out for prince even though he Got The Girl. And the princess, having seen both worlds, seems to be finding out that she likes both and neither. The parliament and people just want more for their country and families; the troll just does as he's asked; it really is more life-like than one might expect from a fantasy story, despite containing all these fantastic elements.

I enjoyed the part with the troll meeting the rabbit, the dog, the fox, and the cat. The way the author puts into words the animals' thoughts is most pleasurable. The fox's personality is perfect, I thought. And then when the troll meets the little child. The exchange is very much like both real life and fairy tale--a good example of the whole feel of the book, I think.


Well, that should do to start us off.

Oh wait!
Right, the backstory with the witch. I thought that was very sweet, how the witch is grateful to the prince because, when she turned back from a beautiful girl into her normal self, the prince didn't immediately shrink back in revulsion or something. Just kinda touching in a slightly sad, bittersweet kind of way.

There.
Thoughts? I'll probably have more once I hear from all of you.

[Gadreille]

It reads like a fairy tale, but it has the kind of language that looks at common things in new ways. It's not a buffet, it's a pre-planned series of small courses. The author spends a lot of time focusing on things, but the pace is steady and consistent so that it doesn't feel slow.

If anything, it feels a little fast. I felt like things were spiraling into action before I could understand their world. But I guess, back then, there was little need to lay out every detail of the world. I guess that's where Tolkien came in and turned everything around ^_^

I found it amusing in the preface that he actually apologizes to the readers for featuring a strange and fantastic land that is not their own. This is before the fantasy genre existed. People hadn't yet gotten used to the idea. Can you imagine? xD

I was like, "Uh oh, he's saying sorry and it hasn't even started yet. What should I expect?

In the story, at first I thought it was quite cliche'd. Of COURSE she falls in love with him as soon as he appears and KILLS ALL HER GUARDS. But then we saw that she was actually hoping for that to happen someday, and had been for a long, long, long "time."

Yea, I took that part and rolled with it, but by chapter nine it seems to make sense. I mean, they rashly fell in love, and the consequences of it didn't come into effect until years after they were married and with a child. Isn't that what happens? I look forward to reading how they get through that roadblock...or if they do at all.

I liked how the King of Elfland at first seems possessive, but you see later on how much he loves his daughter. He doesn't seem like a villain.
In fact, there don't really seem to be any villains in this story.

Yea, he seemed like just a worried father. The troll was really cool, and when he talked to the kid, I was actually scared for the child. I mean, people have believed for a long time that "faeries" steal their children in the night...it was sort of scary to face it unravelling before you. And makes you want to have jam in the house at all times!

A bit off topic, The differences in time really interested me. It made the story flow together while not having to focus on the father nearly as much as the couple. It also added an interesting twist of fantasy that not all novels work with (and few work well).

Right, the backstory with the witch. I thought that was very sweet, how the witch is grateful to the prince because, when she turned back from a beautiful girl into her normal self, the prince didn't immediately shrink back in revulsion or something. Just kinda touching in a slightly sad, bittersweet kind of way.

I don't know. The witch bothers me. I feel like there is still something she wants, something she is waiting for. I feel like we are not done with her yet. I could be wrong though.

Well, sorry I didn't add too much, but I didn't take notes and read through it pretty fast. Hopefully by the next week I will have more to say.

[Kathryn Lacey]

I completely agree with Kalon that this story is really missing the link between faerie telling and the fantasy series to which we're accustomed today. I mean, this story honestly falls flat for me because that missing link makes such an obvious and vast chasm in the story.

The characters feel a little flat to me. I mean, they sort of have their personalities, but I don't feel like I can really relate to any of them because there's just too much missing from them.

The witch honestly feels the most... in depth to me. I, too, feel like she's purposely being underestimated in what she wants. I feel like there's going to be more to her side of things, and I want to know more about her and how her mind ticks.


I'm not saying this story is all bad. If I try hard enough to treat it just like an extra long folk tale, I'm fine with it. There are some interesting aspects to it like the time difference between our world and Elfland. I agree with Ryona that it was dealt with really well, and we could slowly go through the King's side of it during the years that pass for his daughter.

[Kalon Ordona II]

Not missing the link--is the missing link. ^_^

I think, if the story had more in it, it would feel more slow and leisurely. Since, like fairy tales, it has a pretty simple plot, the events move rather quickly despite a good amount of... well... not so much description as mulling over or dwelling on things. A sense that nothing is taken for granted, as the ordinary is as much a focus as the extraordinary. Through the princess's eyes, we see our world, the "fields we know," in a new way.

Having no fantasy genre to draw on back in the early 1920's, it seems the author is taking the idea of fairyland and putting it in the form of a story people can relate to on a deeper level than some children's tale. In a way, I think Elfland being a land of fancy, where whim and creativity are forces unto themselves, is what make this book what it is. It's a look at what happens when the world of reality meets the world of fantasy, when fancy touches the mundane.

What I want to know is where he's going with it. xD Now that the princess has blown off, what's the Prince going to do? He has his magical heir. Will he let her go? Will he drop everything and go straight to Elfland to look for her? If he does that, what if he comes back and his son is already grown? Ooh, if that happens, I bet the witch will have quite a time pulling the strings, if she turns out to be that sort of person.

[Kalon Ordona II]

The King of Elfland's Daughter
by Lord Dunsany
Week 2: Chapters 10-18


So wow, Alveric really did abandon everything and search for Lirazel. Guess I'm not surprised. If he'd just let her go, it wouldn't have been much of a story, unless she came back or something.

Actually I guess he didn't just completely run off. He seemed to get everything taken care of well enough.

The bits that detail Orion's development remind me of Tolkien's style. This whole group of chapters does, now that I think about it. Maybe it's all the traveling and the focus on the wild woods and plains and hunting. I read The Children of Húrin recently, by Tolkien, and there's a lot of that sort of stuff in there, how Turin gets on with the folk he meets in the wilderness during his travels and such.

So then, looks like we have a beginning that's clichéd, if explainably so, and a second quarter full of misery and obsession contrasting with discovery and growth.

Why does everybody close to Elfland avoid talking about it so much?

We'd better find out, after all this focusing on it. xD I like how the author actually spells out what we're probably thinking, when Alveric is trying to puzzle out why the old leather-worker is so dodgy of the topic.

And Alveric pondered on many reasons for this. Had the old man been to Elfland in his youth and seen something he greatly feared, perhaps barely escaping from death or an age-long love? [This is what I had thought at first.] Was Elfland a mystery too great to be troubled by human voices? Did these folk dwelling there at the edge of our world know well the unearthly beauty of all the glories of Elfland, and fear that even to speak of them might be a lure to draw them whither their resolution, barely perhaps, held them back? Or might a word said of the magical land bring it nearer, to make fantastic and elvish the fields we know? To all these ponderings of Alveric there was no answer.

So just what is the real reason? We might have a clue in the next paragraph, where the leather-worker is

rubbing his hands contentedly as he slowly went, for he was glad to see one who had looked toward the fantastic lands turn now to a journey across the fields we know.

It's not much of a clue, but it might point us in the right direction. Somehow the old man knows or believes that the ordinary fields we know are better, at least for us earth-folk.

I liked the merry little band that went with Alveric on his mad quest. The saner ones lost faith in it ten years later, the shepherd and the lover. The shepherd goes back to the comfortable simplicity of his old life, and the crossed-lover comes back more mellow and mature, and his girl likes him better for it and marries him. Guess she wanted someone who could settle down. Someone with sense. And I guess Alveric's quest used up all the lover's store of wanderlust. ^^

I also liked the characters of Oth and Threl, which Oth seems to be a hunter and Threl, a trapper, though Threl was mentioned having a bow as well. The two different perspectives on the woods--the thrill of hunting and the innate mystery of the forest itself--offer a nice comparison/contrast. I liked seeing the mystery of ordinary woods after having seen the glamour of Elfland.

And I noticed the old parliament members are despairing over the apparent lack of magic in Orion thus far.
And then the unicorn comes, Orion chasing it into the village. I bet this'll be the thing that gets them the fame they're wanting.


Let's see, what else...
Oh yes! The Elf king is mean! xD Sensing the magic sword and staying out of reach all the time, so that whenever Alveric is away, Elfland goes right back where it was!! It just seems so cruel! xD

So does that mean Alveric will have to lose his magic sword before he can make it back to Elfland?
I wonder what could cause that.

I bet the story's about to pick up again after this sort of Processing phase, where the characters grow and develop and grind away at their own pursuits, all as a result of Lirazel's absence.

It's starting to look like the fairy-tale bit was just the beginning, and really this is an After Ever After kind of story.

Thoughts?

[Gadreille]

I couldn't identify with this segment at all...both parents, due to there own personal strife, essentially abandon their son. I found myself unable to comprehend this, especially after dealing with the love that the King of Elfland had for his daughter.

I was glad that Oth and Threl were there for the boy, though I wish that they had been introduced earlier in the story.

As for that poor leather worker, that man has done so much for Alveric just to have to go and do more again! I think he doesn't want to admit that elfland is there. Something akin to "Don't speak Voldomort's name" type stuff.

Again, I don't have much to say because I'm just not connecting with the characters. Perhaps the next segment will bring me closer to them.

[Kathryn Lacey]

I don't even like children all that much, and I even thought it was really terrible of both parents to abandon their son, too. I completely agree with Ryona on that point.

I, too, found it hard to connect with the characters, but I had a hard time connecting with them in the beginning anyway.

I mean... we have Alveric who claims to love the King of Elfland's daughter, but he has a really terrible way of showing it. She only wants to please him, but he can't accept her for whom she really is. I suspect he only wanted her because she's beautiful, and she probably only wanted him as an escape from her monotonous life. Then, she has a child, and she seems to care for him, but she just decides to leave him because she can't handle her husband's need to change her.

She's too flighty and fickle for me to identify with her, too.

I, too, think that Oth and Threl should have been introduced earlier into the book. I mean... it felt like they just sort of appeared out of nowhere. Even if they help the boy turn out to be kind of all right, it's really messed up that his parents are just like, "I can't handle my husband any more! Off to Elfland I go!" and "My wife, who it really only seems I loved for her physical appeal, has returned to her father! I must retrieve her no matter what it takes! Off to Elfland I go!"

[Gadreille]

Perhaps this is the beginning of the "All heroes must be orphans" cliche that has cropped into the fantasy world

I am anxious to see what happens with Orion though. Hopefully he's not scarred by his parents abandonment.

Of course, perhaps it's all to do with the time it was written. I'm not sure exactly, but perhaps it was a time when child rearing was left to wet nurses and governess'.

[Kalon Ordona II]

That's what I was thinking. They basically left it all to Ziroonderel anyway. It's Lirazel's elfy-ness that can't seem to understand what all this mundane life is all about.

I notice that it's not so much Lirazel that Alveric loves as it is Elfland itself. It's Elfland that has enchanted him, and Lirazel is the final seal, the thing that all his relationship to Elfland happens to revolve around. It would have been youth, his father's decree, and the glamour of Elfland that made him so hastily become infatuated with Lirazel, and I guess we're seeing the consequences of a rash quest compounded by obtaining a whimsical bride.

Maybe it's more like, This is what REALLY happens after 'omg I just met you and we're in LOVE, aaaah' fairy tale romance. xD The fairy princess can't live in the real world, and now neither can the prince, because he's been charmed by all the wonder of magic.

I'm thinking Orion probably doesn't feel too bad about any of it. He has Ziroonderel on the hill who has taken care of him all his life, waiting up on the hill just in case he ever needs advice. And he has a couple father figures since Alveric is away. And even though Alveric left he still supported Orion's direction in life.

Alveric probably isn't worried about his own land. The people wanted a magic lord, and now with Orion, he figures, 'well, now they've got one. I've done my part, and now the magic calls, so I shall follow it.' It's not as if there are any traitorous plots to steal the throne. Everyone's content as they are, except wanting some fame for their little country.

I wouldn't be surprised if Orion ends up bringing everyone together.

[Gadreille]

I do admit that watching their struggles is far more interesting than them just living happily ever after. People who just jump into love cannot remain in the relationship without major compromise and hard work, something Alveric and Lirazel both had trouble with. It is interesting looking at his love for her as an obsession with Elfland. it's true.

Ziroonderel, Oth and Threl are the true parents of Orion. I agree, Alveric at least returned to tie up loose ends before leaving. The saddest part was that Orion's obsession with the woods stemmed from the disappearance of his mother. It's almost like they both wildly crave Elfland, and therefore, Lirazel, which was the only part of Elfland that Orion knew, beside the horns.

[Kalon Ordona II]

The King of Elfland's Daughter
by Lord Dunsany
Week 3: Chapters 19-26

I'll have more detailed thoughts later, but I have a bit of time before my shift starts at work, so I thought I'd start us off. ^_^

Looks like Erl got its fame! Or the beginnings of it. From the unicorn horn. Huzzah!

I found it amusing that they decided whether or not he had indeed hunted the unicorn by casting a vote. xD And then they did the same thing to confirm that he had.

I guess what this third quarter is about is Setup For The Finale. We're revisiting all the characters and seeing that little by little there are changes happening to bring them all back together.

It was great to see the troll again. Now we get even more seeing-our-world-through-other-eyes. Lurulu and all the trolls' fascination with time, having never seen it happening before, as well as the foreign ways of humans, is kind-of charming.

I'm a little worried how long Lurulu will be gone getting the trolls. Will Orion have to wait five years or so for his wipping buddies to come back?

And I guess Ziroonderel moved from her house on the hill. Interesting. And I like how the madmen that had stuck with Alveric so long turned on him in the end. It's consistent with their characters in surprising and distressing ways. What's going to happen?? xD

And oh right! FINALLY we get some backstory on why there's no queen. And we find out she was MORTAL. Oooooooooooooooo you Kiiiiiing. xD I don't EVEN want to hear him complaining anymore that Lirazel's fallen for a human.

So does that mean Lirazel's actually a half-elf?
And Orion, a quarter-elf?

One question I had was: Why do dogs age when they wander in Elfland but humans don't? In the beginning of Lurulu Speaks of Earth and the Ways of Men where it says,

For one alone could not always guard every hound from straying when they went to the boundary fo twilight, where but a few yards away lay spaces from which if a hound ever came home, as lost hounds do at evening, it would come home all worn and bedraggled with age for its half hour of straying.

Is it because they're not really going in but just frolicking along or half in and half out of the barrier? That might do it, I guess, if the barrier is big enough to play in while both you don't realize time slipping away and time still has its effects. Something like that? Because foxes go in and out, too, and don't come back bedraggled with age like it says there. Maybe because they go all the way in and all the way back out? Or maybe I'm reading it wrong.


I have no idea what's going to happen next. Is Alveric ever going to make it back, or is Lirazel going to go back to him (or to Orion)? And will they have a chance to build a real relationship this time? Or will Alveric go to Elfland forever? And what about Orion? The dogs kept him away from Elfland for now, but what will he eventually decide to do?

More later, either later tonight or tomorrow.

[Gadreille]

I'm four chapters behind, going to try and finish today and get a post up.

Lara, could you let us know your book choice so we can begin searching for it? if you don't want to go this round, let us know so Ghost Writer may choose.

Edit:

My favorite chapters were twenty three and twenty four; it was really interesting seeing the ways of men through the eyes of a troll. The whole scene of him lounging with the pidgeons was really neat. He was so fascinated by change, something that we hardly marvel at because we cannot experience life without change, except maybe in our dreams.

I like that we get a date; things are occuring around or slightly before 1530. It's strange reading someone who is writing this novel with the assumption that it will be rejected. Seems a scary thing to write.

I'm not sure why the dogs age, but perhaps it is because they are wandering in and out of it. Perhaps foxes are of elfland and dogs are not?

And are we sure that her mother was human? He just says "mortal". Perhaps there are mortal elves, or an elf who wanders to and from the fields we know become mortal and then perish. Wasn't he worried that would happen to Lirazel?

I wonder if the witch is from elfland. She seems to be spiteful of the king, as if he had rejected her or something. I don't know. What other reason for her to continuously help Alveric with nothing in return?

We stopped at quite a cliffhanging moment, with Lirazel hearing her husband's horn. I don't see how they could reside in elfland, not with the King in power. I have a feeling Lirazel will abandon elfland once again.

---

So, I think that next week should be discussion of the last of the book, and start the next book on the monday after next (August 1st). Hopefully Lara will get back to me soon.

[Kalon Ordona II]

Yup, that's the plan. 4 weeks, like the last one. In hindsight, I think it was short enough we probably could have done three weeks or even two.

[Mojave Wanderer]

I think I might need all four weeks to catch up on reading. . . I shall not surrender yet!

[Lara]

Hey all! Sorry about not being around. Even though I couldn't participate this month, I'm hoping that I can obtain Kalon's book on my own when I'm back home because it sounds like an awesome read. =)

The book I'm recommending for August is Brother to Dragons, Companion to Owls, by Jane Lindskold. (I have the 1994 edition, but I don't know how much of a difference it makes.)

Reasons for choosing:
1. This book delves into topics that many people don't normally read about. It takes a new spin on mental illnesses and strange circumstances, and often leaves you wondering what's real and what's not.
2. I've always wanted to be able to discuss this book with someone else, but no one I know has ever heard of the book before, let alone read it.
3. It's not a very long read, but I feel that it's got a lot of depth to it.

Starting Date: August 1, 2011

Reading Pace:
Week One: Chapters 1 through 5
Week Two: Chapters 6 through 10
Week Three: Chapters 11 through 14
Week Four: Chapters 15 through 18

I'm aware that the total page counts for each week vary quite a bit, but I feel that it makes sense when you actually read the book.

I don't know how to link this post to the first one, though. ):

[Gadreille]

I don't know how to link this post to the first one, though. ):

That is my job, and I will do so right away! I'm glad that even though you couldn't participate, Kalon's joice has piqued your interest

Edit: In all of the San Joaquin Valley libraries, there is only one copy of this book...but it was checked in! I have requested it and should get it soon. I may have to read this at a slightly faster pace if someone else requests it, as you only get to check out for three weeks unless there is no demand for it.

[Lara]

Yay! I'm glad that the book is actually available! =D How crazy, though, that there's only one copy in all of those libraries.

[Kalon Ordona II]

The book isn't in my library system.
I looked online and got to read the first chapter thanks to Google, but if anyone knows a legitimate and free way to read it, do let me know.


As for the previous book, I guess Orion didn't really do much of anything at all.
Basically, Stuff Just Happens. Which I guess is more like real life, in a way.
Lirazel just has her father use the last great rune to bring Elfland to Erl, but because of the time difference all this other stuff happens between her going back and her returning with Elfland.

Interesting that they got more magic than they bargained for, but then they got to actually be in the magic-place.
Although, on the other hand, Erl faded from history because now it's in Elfland.

I guess the Parliament didn't get to have their cake and eat it too. They sowed the seeds of magic and they reaped a bumper crop, but magic isn't like the mundane ways of the normal world; you can't predict it. They got more than they asked for, ignorantly thinking just plain magic would bring them fame but not really change much else.

So, now that it's over, my impression is a tiny bit less than it was, but still better than average. It's a far cry from being my favorite book ever, but I didn't expect it would be. It's just awesome to see a pioneer Fantasy work. I wonder how many fantasy stories wouldn't exist without this. Did Tolkien read books like this, to his children perhaps?

I guess our thoughts on it kinda tapered off, which is probably some indication of its not-quite-so-riveting-ness. Still, it was great to hear everybody's opinions. Made me think of things I wouldn't have thought of on my own.
Yay for book clubs!

Hopefully I'll be able to get ahold of the other book in some form or another. I guess now it's my turn to find a roundabout method.
Cheers!

[Lara]

The book isn't in my library system.
I looked online and got to read the first chapter thanks to Google, but if anyone knows a legitimate and free way to read it, do let me know.

Hopefully I'll be able to get ahold of the other book in some form or another. I guess now it's my turn to find a roundabout method.
Cheers!

Unfortunately, I don't know how you'd find the entire book online, but this site has a preview of the first 3 full chapters and the first few pages of chapter four. Maybe you could order the actual book and then use this until it comes in?

Sorry I can't be more helpful (yet; still looking).

Also, I was at the library today and I found a copy of The Road in the discarded books section. Naturally, I picked it up, because I really enjoyed reading it with the Book Club!

[Gadreille]

Count me out this run...library couldn't send it, and I don't have time/money to buy it. sorry guys

[Lara]

If it turns out that no one can get a hold of it, then the next person should suggest a book and we can go from there. =) Sorry that it's turned into such a difficult book to find...

[Kalon Ordona II]

First chapter is interesting.
I guess we can count on anything the other people say as being what's really going on, and everything else just her perspective.
I wonder where it'll go. ^^

If I can find a way to read the whole thing, I wouldn't mind still staying with this one.

Unfortunately, I only skimmed the bits past chapter 1 because it skips 10 pages of chapter 2 before going up to chapter 4.
It does the same thing in the Google preview, too. :/

I could try to download it from somewhere... The book was released back in 1994, so I wouldn't feel too bad about finding some free pdf or something somewhere. I don't know if there's a legitimate way to get it... And I guess "trusted torrent site" is an oxymoron.

I found it on Goodreads.com, which also lists places you can buy it, and Half.com has it for $1.33, but then there's shipping and stuff, waiting for it to get here.

[Kathryn Lacey]

None of the libraries near me have it, and unfortunately, I haven't even finished reading Kalon's book. I got really absorbed in the Harry Potter series, but now that it's done, I'm playing some serious catch-up. ^x_x^

I'll see if Barnes and Noble has it, but if it doesn't, I'm going to have to sit this one out. =\

[Gadreille]

I'm sorry I was MIA for a while. The library was taking way to long to get me the book, so unless we choose a different one, I still will be passing this book up. I don't want to, but I have no way to access it.

Edit: I also have not finished elfland...though I do plan on it soon.

[Kathryn Lacey]

I'm on page 154 of 185 of Elfland, so I'm very close! I just keep getting busy. I'm sad that I can't find that other book, though. Barnes and Noble apparently has it, but it's like... $17, and because I don't have a job, I can't afford to pay that much for a book. =\

[Kathryn Lacey]

Thu 11 Aug - 19:18
I'm on page 154 of 185 of Elfland, so I'm very close! I just keep getting busy. I'm sad that I can't find that other book, though. Barnes and Noble apparently has it, but it's like... $17, and because I don't have a job, I can't afford to pay that much for a book. =\

EDIT
I finished the book! It got better at the end, but it was still really predictable, and I'm not sure I liked it very much. I'll give it two or three stars out of five. It was nice to see the beginnings of fantasy novels, though! ^^_^^

What are we doing now? Are we still going through with Brother to Dragons, Companion to Owls by Jane Lindskold despite the fact that most of us can't acquire it? Will Lara choose another book or pass her turn back to Silvone? Is Silvone going to choose a book, or is Ghost up next, or is it my turn? I actually have a book in mind that may be easier to get, but I don't want to jump the gun on it since there are still more people ahead of me.

[Gadreille]

That decision is up to Lara. To be clear, this Book Club is run by all members, not just me. So Lara, let us know if you want to choose another, go on with this one (though I'm not sure anyone aquired it) or move on to Ghost Writer (Silvone's turn shall be skipped).

[Kathryn Lacey]

Okay. Sounds good to me. I like the idea of it being run like an anarchy, completely reliant on the members and no official leader. ^^_^^

[Gadreille]

Yea, the only thing I do is update the info on the first post, but you could do that too Kathryn ^_^

[Raspeyer]

I'm interested in joining this but not sure about how soon. It seems as though you all are still deciding on your next book so I should have time to get in the mood. I've never done one of these before but it sounds pretty fun. I have some great books in mind for future reads.

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