Do you agree or disagree with this statement of humans?

[Sunwolf007]

Because humans are imperfect we know perfection and thus try to become perfect even though we can not.

Do you agree or disagree with the above statement? Why?

I will post my thoughts on this later because I don’t want what I say to influence what someone else says.

[Kalon Ordona II]

I suppose I disagree with the statement. Just as it is impossible to love without having first been loved by another, I think we could only know perfection if we were perfect at one time--or if something else is perfect, to serve as an example. We're obviously imperfect now, but if we had always been imperfect, then we never would know what perfection is.

I don't think we can become perfect on our own, but I do think people will be perfected eventually. And I do think perfection is a worthy goal. In fact, I'll go further and say it is a necessary goal.

[The Melancholy Spirit]

I have some wisdom from good ol' Miyamoto Musashi to counter your point, Kalon: "By knowing things that exist you can know that which does not exist."

That said, I find perfection to be a funny thing. We see what is imperfect, so we strive for what is perfect. We see perfection in others, because it is something that we don’t have. It isn’t in the entirety of their person, but a part of them. How calm they may seem under pressure, even if inside their head is spinning like mad. Perhaps their artistic ability… perhaps it is because they put on a façade because they don’t want people to see the imperfection they do when looking into the mirror. Anyway…

Perfection, as a goal, is great because it always gives you something to look forward to; to reach for, and so forth. Many claim that it is unattainable, but the way I see it… there is a strong paradox in the very essence of what is ‘perfection’. For what is perfection but the lack of anything ill, bad, sinful, evil and so on and so forth.

However, without the bad, we don’t truly appreciate the good. In the cliché outlooks of a perfect world everything would soon grow into stagnation. Things are not perfect, they are terribly imperfect. But, in this mass imperfection we are able to see what is good, what is beautiful, and what is worth being cherished. Thus, it can be argued that there is perfection in imperfection.

In the end, I belief that it comes down to the individual, though overall I would have to say that I agree with the statement. This does not mean that everyone tries to reach perfection, but just as many do as those who do not. There is also a quote, I can’t remember it word for word or who said it, but it goes a little something like this: “In the chase for perfection we might obtain excellence.”

[Loki]

I only partially agree with the aforementioned statement since I view perfection as being something that varies from person to person. The definition of perfection is for something to be without fault; where one person views something as being exemplary, there is likely to be another who views that thing to be flawed for the very same reason the first person viewed it as perfect.

Through that logic, perfection of self is something that can be obtained, though it takes a special type of personality to do so and it can be very fleeting. If a person ever reaches a moment in their lives, where given the option, they would not change anything about themselves or about their situation, then by definition they are perfect. Then again, how many people are so sure and confident with themselves that they would reach such a state of mind for longer than a few moments, as long as it takes for them to look upon another and covet something that they may have?

By that same token, it could be argued that perfection is impossible to obtain. In my opinion, it is a character flaw for somebody to reach a point in their life where they do not strive to develop themselves in one way or another, be it through goals, abilities, knowledge, etc. In which case it is a paradox since obtaining perfection causes one to become imperfect at the same time.

[Guest]

Perfection is relative. We do know perfection, whether or not we obtain it, based on what our own ideas of perfection are. Some can obtain their idea of perfection. Others cannot. I know that my idea of perfection is a standard far below that of many other people, and I will more likely achieve that state of perfection before those with higher standards. Not that it will be easy for me...

So, basically, I disagree with the statement in the sense that their is no universal form of perfection, only uniformity, and that, in my opinion, is not perfection.

[Gadreille]

Because humans are imperfect we know perfection and thus try to become perfect even though we can not.

I agree, we do try to become perfect, but perfection in our eyes is merely self-satisfaction. Each person has a unique view of perfection based upon their culture, religion, education, sex, and more. A man in Samoa has a different view of perfection than a man in Greece, and a man in America has a very different view of perfection than his woman counterpart. Even within the same identity there will be widely varying views of perfection, so in the end you can only satisfy your own view, because it is impossible to satisfy the millions of alternate views. I know, I've tried.

There is no knowing one "pure" form of perfection. One culture may see warrior men as perfect, while another may favor the peaceful man who has never harmed another. Actually, in America, both are revered. Who's to say which is actually perfect? There is only the egocentric belief that your version of perfection is the version, which unfortunately happens more than I would like.

[MoiraofWords]

Are we helping you with a philosphy class? Because this seems tangent to Descartes...

Anyway, I suggest a vehement no. If we are not perfect, we cannot know what perfection is. What is cold? The temperature decreasing? (Technically). It is a lesser and lesser concentration of heat. Personal interpretation and thus misinterpretation of an event can skew the view of people. What humans may believe to be perfection may be achieved, but without a proper comprehension of what is perfection, it is unattainable.

Even if by some measure of good fortune someone discovered perfection, would they understand that they did? No. Even if we had glimpsed the truth of the matter, we wouldn't comprehend it as so. For example, let us say that one religion, in some day or age, has found the perfect measure of what is. Can people agree on it though? No. Personal opinions cloud what may be the truth of the matter. And as long as our minds are so clouded by emotions and still not quite completely evolved, we shall not be able to understand it.

Thus, we shalln't understand perfection. Nor should we expect to. What is the truth of perfection is an unknowable goal-- people may feel content with their own personal conceptions but that is not perfection, that is only the watered down perception of perfection. Too be honest, we could be perfect, but we wouldn't understand. Our flawed thinking begins with the concept of imperfection.

[Bird of Hermes]

Imperfect and perfect are akin to bad and good. They are words of comparison. One implies a lack of the latter. Without tools of comparison such as these, one could not say that something is, say, perfect. If something can be perfect, there must be something that is not perfect. How do you know if something, say, looks better than something else? You compare it. You can't say something is good without having something bad to reference. If everything was good and nothing was bad, how would you know what good is? You need comparison.

Now, if humans are imperfect, and, for the sake of this discussion, let us say they are, how do that know that they are imperfect? Because there is or they believe that there is something that is perfect. If there was nothing, real or contrived, that was perfect, how could they say they are not? It's a comparison.

The real tricky question is this: If humans believe themselves to be imperfect, what is the perfect thing that they are comparing themselves to? Philosophy and religion have done their damnedest to try and answer that.

[Sunwolf007]

Here is the way I look at this and I wrote this before reading the posts on this topic:
Perfection is never achievable. If it was then it wouldn’t mean anything. Once you achieve something it loses its value. For instance when I first got my job as a draftsperson I thought it was the highest achievement I ever had. Now I look at it as a necessary step in the road of my life. A stepping stone from which I go on to the next thing. The job wasn’t perfection and I could not become perfect at my job even thought I wanted to. I ended up being fired from it once I lost sight of how much I needed to go the extra mile and that I hadn’t been. Like the statement implies you can’t have one without the other and you can’t know the other without relation to the other. Because we never achieve perfection we want it. That is what I think makes us as humans great. We try to achieve the unachievable constantly and in our own way. We know exactly what imperfection is because we live in it constantly and always strive to be something better than ourselves even though we can’t ever achieve true perfection although we can be close.

Oh and no this actually has nothing to do with philosophy class. Actually I was reading Guarded by Mystery by David Walsh for theology class which in the first two chapters deals with human transcendentalism and I just kinda came up with that statement from the reading. I was just wondering if anyone thought that it was a true statement of being or not. I really didn’t think it would get this kind of critical response which I find awesome that you guys took the time to think about it and write out your thoughts. I knew I joined FoG for a reason. I really valued your opinions and insights into my statement.

[daniel587]

Since we are imperfect how can we know what true perfection is?

[The Melancholy Spirit]

The way I see it... humans, just like every other single thing in this universe of existance, are perfect because of their imperfections.

[Guest]

I think we can have an idea of what perfection is. We might think as you did Sunwolf that getting that particular job is perfection. When we get to that stage though, there is something new that shines and says: I am perfection.

We constantly set new goals for ourselves when we reach them, or we might want something another has. If we aren't content with what we have, we haven't reached perfection. Although being content doesn't mean you've reached perfection, your own or a universal one if there is one.

Change is in the end always desirable. Change for the better is always the best. Perfection is a state when something have gotten so far it can't be greater; it can only be. It would be a sad thing to reach that state. What would you do after everything is perfect?

I don't think we could stay thinking ourselves or something else is perfect. If nothing else, we can't control everything around us. So nothing could stay perfect. It might seem perfect, or you might remember it as perfect. But if you were put back there, you'd remember all the bad things along with the perfect ones.

[Dax]

To tell the truth, perfection is impossible. To all those who say: humans may achieve this goal someday or that we are the path to do so, I urge you to take a look at the definition of 'perfection' in the dictionnary, then you will know why nothing has ever been, nor will ever be perfect.

Definition

I would like to pull your attention to 5 and 6. Flawless, you say? Devoid of imperfections, you say? Utterly impossible. A human is the sum of imperfections, it is what makes us what who we are. Without getting too cheesy, you have to realize this.

Also, to those who say that we do not know what perfection is, I also beg to differ. Perhaps practically we do not know if it, we do know of it theoretically. Therefore it is possible, with a simple idea, to achieve said thing. Of course human perfection is also undesirable, as someone else has mentioned, it would inevitably mean that we have all become gods of some sorts without any faults or flaws. Not sure we all want that.

And one last thing to those who say that they think humanity is perfect for its imperfections... well that just defeats the purpose of perfection and although some imperfections could complement and cancel out some of each other, the simple fact that there is an imperfection makes it non-perfect, obviously.

In the immortal words of Fidel Castro, I know say this: I have nothing else to say today.

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