Forgive Me For Being a Cynical Bastard, But...

[Emerald]

I get the sense this website is just exploiting a writer's greatest weakness in order to bolster their ranks: ego. (Which is, obviously, what piqued my interest )

Maybe I'm just judging a book by its cover, but personally I find the snooty, elitist, closed-community vibe to be a bit of a turn off. I mean, I admit this place seems to have a higher standard of RPing than most, and I'm flattered ya'll (or the owner, at least) has 'hand-picked' me to be a part of it, but I really can't see what sets this site apart. Besides the elitist attitude. I checked out a few of the RPs in the 'advanced roleplaying' area. They tend to be just... long. Maybe it's just me, but I generally prefer 'short, sweet and snappy' to 'long-winded, self-indulgent expositions which could be summed up in a few lines, but the author spent too long thinking this crap up and loves it too much to edit it away in favour of proper storytelling'.


The short version of this post is: there seems to be too much ego in here for mine too fit

That said, I'm an open-minded guy, and I'm willing to accept the fact that I may have misjudged this place.

[Eternity]

Lol. Well then. Welcome to FOG. Cram your ego right on in, you'll like it after a while lol.

~Eternity

[Emerald]

I retract my previous statements following the discovery that Fate Fortold, said site owner, is a smoking hot 22-year-old chick majoring in Video Game Design.


(The particular statements being that there isn't anything to set the site apart, and it's a turn off)

[Eternity]

You be careful, her smoking hot boyfriend is also an Administrator here. LOLZ

XD

[Emerald]

Hmm, could he beat me up?

[Mattipus]

Hey there Emerald!

I can see your concern about the site... but to be fair, users who sign up here aren't just 'by invitation only' (like some sites I know of) - so just about anyone can sign up here. I think the more important aspect of hand-picking people is finding those who would truly enjoy their time here. In honesty, I prefer it her a little bit... it's quite a friendly, tight-knit community here, which I guess suits my personality more. I don't cope as well on a board with thousands of users, where I usually stick exclusively to the RP threads.

Anyway, nice to see you here.

[Eternity]

No one's gonna beat you up Emerald. lol.

Anyways, I second what Mattipus said. Man, I'm just not good with introductions before noon lol.

[Emerald]

Hey, if the Adminstrative Staff didn't want lecherous comments made about them, they would have explicitly stated that in the rules.

Besides, the Princess with the Pretty Blues "hand selected" me! With her very own hands. It's my divine right to be here. I am the chosen one!


(Psst, you're just as pretty Eternity, but it's simply more fun when there's a boyfriend I can antagonise...)



Anyway, on a more serious note, Matt, you make a good point. But I think the way I see RPing -- more like practising the craft of writing with a group, for fun, rather than a form of resonant artistic expression -- is better off in a more anonymous environment, where you don't know each other well enough to form any opinions (I usually identify people by their characters. It's kinda funny)


Roleplaying is always going to be prone to mistakes and inconsistencies and such (even if we spent months on each post, the natural flow of a story would still be broken up by sudden POV and style shifts as each player posts). Point being, it's more of a fun game that hones your writing skills (specifically character development), for me. I usually don't go beyond a first or second draft. If I was writing seriously I probably wouldn't even post. Never satisfied with my work.

[Tempest]

Hey onenitedrive, want to get together and pound on this guy a little?

Welcome to FOG Emerald, should you have any issues concerning the way things are run here please don't hesitate to ask! If you simple want to continue to make ill-founded assumptions, as I previously stated, we'll be happy to beat down on you.

[Eternity]

Don't worry Emerald, if they beat you up, I've got a fresh box of band-aids :3

P.S.- I hope you know that we're all just joking around with you lol We say elite and advanced, but a good few of us are quite playful and strange. Like me.

[Fate Flyer]

Oh, hey there, Emerald!

I just wrote you back on Roleplay Gateway, so I hope that that PM has helped (or will help, if you haven't read it yet) to clear up any concerns you may have. As others have said -- we aren't a closed community. We're open to all who wish to join! If you really want to learn about FOG and why I created it, check out this thread.

We're all entitled to our own opinions, so the best way to figure something new out that you're unfamiliar with is to simply get immersed in it and learn it yourself! So, that being said, it is wonderful to see you here.

Lol I'm "smoking hot?" That's news to me!

Ah! Emerald, your name fits you so well, as I see you are from Ireland! I die every time I hear an Irish, Scottish, or English accent. I know, typical American, right? To give you a taste of my pathetic addiction to your accents, here's a stupid video I can't help but watch from time to time on Youtube because his accent is just so darn crazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scNLfr1EP08

Anyway, welcome, welcome. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[Kathryn Lacey]

Welcome to FoG, Emerald.

I'm sorry that your first impression of this site was so cynical, but I hope that after you spend more time here, you'll find yourself more at home.

Honestly, if you really don't like "long-winded, self-indulgent" posts as you've said, may I suggest you role play in the Casual or One on One role play sections? That is probably the best way for you to stick to your "short, sweet and snappy" posts.

I am inclined to disagree with your opinion about longer posts, but I am able to respect your opinion as it is. I am able to agree to disagree.

Welcome to FoG.

Oh, by the way, onenitedrive is actually Fate's fiancé, not her boyfriend. =3

[Guest]

I checked out a few of the RPs in the 'advanced roleplaying' area. They tend to be just... long. Maybe it's just me, but I generally prefer 'short, sweet and snappy' to 'long-winded, self-indulgent expositions which could be summed up in a few lines, but the author spent too long thinking this crap up and loves it too much to edit it away in favour of proper storytelling'.

"Proper storytelling?" There is no such thing as "proper storytelling." One can tell a story in whichever way they choose. And that is why we have a casual board, for short posts, an advanced board, for long posts, and one-on-one's for everything in between. Anyone who says that a story can only be told one way has absolutely no respect for the written word and what can be done with it.

A long, "self-indulgent exposition" that can be summed up in a few lines has a purpose beyond the writer simply glorifying his own abilities to write more sentences than the next guy. How much do your short posts add to the five senses when describing a new place? How well can you describe your character, his history and personality, in a short post? To make a world come alive, sometimes you need long expositions to properly explain it. While short ones work in other ways, they can't do what longer ones can.

Every type of writing has its place, and by claiming that long-winded writers simply can't properly tell a story you are completely disrespecting a whole hell of a lot of writers out there in the world, including many writers here on the boards. Even worse, as a writer yourself, you are disrespecting the written word. But whatever...to each his own.

Welcome to the boards.

[Fate Flyer]

That was very well put, Silvone, and I fully agree.

[Emerald]

Ah! Emerald, your name fits you so well, as I see you are from Ireland! I die every time I hear an Irish, Scottish, or English accent. I know, typical American, right?

Gah! She just threw us in with the dastardly English! Fate had a clean break from the starting line, but this cultural blunder is going to cost her points!
Kathyrn's now the most attractive. But it's a close race. Fierce competition on this site...

(I'm running out of misogynistic material. Usually I don't get away with it as easy. Female authority figures bring it out... And over 24 hours without sleep for reasons which shall go unspecified...)



And forgive me for drawing conclusions about you all being pretentious mutual ego-strokers. I don't know where I might have gotten such an idea (do I have to quote to support that sarcasm or should I leave it as blatant and move on?). If you don't want people thinking you're elitists, I wouldn't include the phrases like: "formally invited", "advanced role-playing", "hand-selected", "ensure the quality of FOG is preserved" or "expert writers with literate capabilities beyond that of the average person, like yourself" in the invitation message. It sends shivers down my spine (although, that's mainly because I've seen the worst kinds of haughty elitism the writing world has got. Tends to be older folk who feel writing is the only thing in their lives they can still do well these days, so they cling to it like it's their last hope of every amounting to anything)

Although I wasn't being entirely sarcastic up there, because I can see most of you seem fairly dislodged from your own asses, and it probably wasn't fair of me to generalise an entire site based on a feeling I got.

Anyone who says that a story can only be told one way has absolutely no respect for the written word and what can be done with it.

Bah-bah-bingo, my good man, which is exactly why it's unfair to say that 'advanced roleplaying' must be automatically filled with boring, exhaustive descriptions and verbose dialogue just to make it "long". And that snappier, faster-paced writing styles (i.e. the mystery/suspense genre) are somehow inferior.


The reader doesn't need to know every facet of every race you just made up and their languages and how they treat their women and how their government works and how there's a dissenting group of rebels who oppose the government (which is suspiciously based on a real-world government) and the main character and his past and his motives and his favourite colour and his dog's name and his second dog's name and more of his past (which is as tragic as it is plot-centric) and all the skills, powers and weapons in his arsenal listed out in full detail. All crammed into the first post.

All they want is a dude to root for, who does interesting stuff, for interesting reasons. You need to hook your readers and bring them along. You can't expect anyone to give a crap about the land of Drokanloktar right off the bat. Sure, you've got all these cool details in your head, but that doesn't mean you need to dump it on people.



Writing -- and this is not me talking, alone, this is just about any successful writer -- is all about figuring out what not to write. Haven't you ever heard of those old writer's sayings? "Murder your darlings"? "Never use ten words when you can use one"? "Final draft = First - 10%"?
Editors exist for a reason. Director's cuts are longer because of that reason.



I'm not sure why I spent so much time arguing that point. Any article on writing would tell you that length is bad. Novels well over 100,000 words rarely ever get published. Bah. I worked myself up into a rant too... Next you'll be defending random POV-switching, or using amnesia as a literary device to add 'mystery' to your character.


Also. "Disrespecting the written word."
Haha. SO not elitist...




(Again, I'm being light-hearted. Just in a bit more of a derogatory manner than usual. Need sleep. Getting cranky. Wah.)

(Also, looking back, it's possible we've been misunderstanding each other, and are arguing two completely different things. I'm too tired to pick up on it. And you're having a great time being all indignant, so you probably wouldn't have noticed either...)


(Also, I can't help but feel I may have come about introducing myself into this lovely community from the wrong angle. Who knew there's people on this planet who don't appreciate lecherous (albeit witty) comments, slanderous accusations of elitism and venomous sarcasm directed their way. Strange folk, you lot are...)

[Fate Flyer]

The topic on post length has previously been discussed, and I have already changed the rule once to shorten the length we require, and therefore this is now a closed subject (especially since most of our members feel as if the requirement is already too low, as even a lot of low-grade role-playing sites require more than us). I don't feel it's necessary to debate something that should not be a problem to begin with. I've almost never seen anyone on any role-playing site that can't meet our standards. They are far too low for my own liking, but alas, I am trying to see your side of the argument, and therefore I have already made an adjustment.

Let's try and remain civil here, please -- everyone. OMG the internetz! Lol c'mon. 'Elite' and 'egotistical' are not words you typically want to call people you are absolutely unfamiliar with. So, while you may have these preconceived notions about us or about FOG, that's fine. Just let's keep them to ourselves for the sake of everyone's sanity, okay? Thanks. Now, let's say we actually move on and forget silly senseless drama?

[Ragter the junior greeter]

...

I don't know what to say for once.

Welcome?

[Guest]

Oh, I get it perfectly. A man with an ego that's too big to fit in a board with other ego's. Makes sense. Your way is right of course. There is only one style of writing anyone on this entire planet that anyone can enjoy. Short, simple, to the point. That is why the Lord of the Rings was never published. That is why our country is so damned literate, because all it takes is a short book to garner interest.

I wasn't saying every damn detail of an entire world gets slammed into the first paragraph, I'm saying some things can't be properly explained through short writing. Nor did I say any style of writing was inferior, that came from you in your first post. Go back and read it. I clearly said that every style of writing has its place. I prefer to write longer, and that is just my preference. I do enjoy short writing, but I don't fool myself into thinking its the only way to write.

We are a community of people who appreciate writing for what it is. We've all come from other boards filled with people who don't. And you want to criticize us for that?

[Kalon Ordona II]

Sword of Truth.
Wheel of Time.
Shannara.

Just saying.
There's a lot of fantasy on this site. New worlds need description.
That's why we have Out Of Character threads to hold the information, so we don't have to throw it all at them from the start.

Also, you really REALLY don't have to stick around if you don't want to.
We'd love to have you, but not if you can't enjoy the FOG.

I would have said much the same as Silvone put so well (probably better than I could have). Short and sweet is all well and good, but really, we're not asking much.

Are you saying two paragraphs of five sentences each is long-winded?
...You're not a one-liner, are you?

Forgive me if I don't seem welcoming. I'd love to have someone like you here who so obviously reveres quality storytelling. But you really need to think about what you're accusing, and find out if you have a leg to stand on.

This is the FOG, my friend. Enter or flee.

[Kathryn Lacey]

:: pets Silvone comfortingly :: It will be okay. Just calm down.

I know far too many people who are very stuck in their judgements. I am one of them though I will admit to occasionally being easily swayed to another point of view. However, I do agree that all writing styles have their place, and some can be better than others depending on the quality of the execution. There are long posts that suck, and there are short posts that suck. Just like either one can be quite good. I just read a book consisting of tiny print and many pages that bored the crap out of me, and I've read shorter books that had me hooked. I have also read short, craptastic books, and long amazing books.

Really, it all depends on the quality of execution. Now stop your bitching, everyone, and just agree to disagree.

Also, Emerald, you're really attracted to blonds aren't you? ^o_O^

I'm really not someone who should ever attempt to compete in a battle of looks. I would lose quite quickly in the real world. =3

[Ragter the junior greeter]

I'm really not someone who should ever attempt to compete in a battle of looks. I would lose quite quickly in the real world. =3

I disagree.

[Fluff]

Kathryn, there are three things that are judged during a contest of looks.
1) Eyes. Windows to the soul? They totally are. You have lovely eyes--that's +20 points right there.
2) Looks. Yes, being hot helps. (Hi, Fate!)
3) Demeanor. First impressions are awesome. Your bearing is half the battle.

You're not doing so bad, big sister.

Hey, Emerald. I'm Fluff, which is a shortening of my original name, The Mighty Fluffball, also known as Chapney, which is the strange moniker my parents bestowed upon me at birth. I jump between being uncomfortably playful, and really really angry. I lived in Scotland for the last two years, and it sucked ass. Ten points to you, Irishman.

You're not the only one who doesn't like the ego thing. I very nearly left a few days ago because of it. It's a strange contrast; despite the arrogance at FOG, Fate, the site's mother, is very sweet and unassuming, even in regards to her own writing abilities. The site can indeed attract drama whores and human puffer-fish, but it's not intentional, and there are nice peeps here too! That said, I'm almost never around because it's too easy for me to get pissed-off with them.

[[Soma]]

*puts a gun up against Emerald's head* what took you so long?

Welcome to the site, sorry about the late welcome.

[Emerald]

I wasn't saying every damn detail of an entire world gets slammed into the first paragraph, I'm saying some things can't be properly explained through short writing. Nor did I say any style of writing was inferior, that came from you in your first post. Go back and read it. I clearly said that every style of writing has its place. I prefer to write longer, and that is just my preference. I do enjoy short writing, but I don't fool myself into thinking its the only way to write.

I still don't get it. You're stating things and using MY argument to support it.

This is me: "Writing a lot doesn't necessarily mean you're writing well, writing shorter doesn't mean you're writing bad. They're different styles and should be treated equally."
This is you: "ALL STYLES ARE EQUAL! WRITING SHORT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY!!"

We're saying the same thing, really. The primary difference is that you're doing it hypocritically (and with heaping amounts of irony) because you're saying all ways of writing are equal while secretly favouring a single kind, along with most people, seemingly.

I'm just tired of people thinking word count is directionally proportional to artistic merit.

Really, it all depends on the quality of execution. Now stop your bitching, everyone, and just agree to disagree.

That's my point, in a nutshell. Quality of execution. Nice way to put it. I just don't like it when people call good writing bad because they're used to people not making an effort (personally, I re-word, re-write and re-balance sentences so much it's like I've written twice what I actually post).

Although the psychologist in me is suspicious that he may just be subconsciously putting words in his mouth so he has an excuse to defend his territory from this new invader (me), while impressing the females of the pack.

Kathryn, there are three things that are judged during a contest of looks.
1) Eyes. Windows to the soul? They totally are. You have lovely eyes--that's +20 points right there.
2) Looks. Yes, being hot helps. (Hi, Fate!)
3) Demeanor. First impressions are awesome. Your bearing is half the battle.

You're not doing so bad, big sister.

DEFEND THE FEMALES!!

Hey, Emerald. I'm Fluff, which is a shortening of my original name, The Mighty Fluffball, also known as Chapney, which is the strange moniker my parents bestowed upon me at birth. I jump between being uncomfortably playful, and really really angry. I lived in Scotland for the last two years, and it sucked ass. Ten points to you, Irishman.

Haha, all Scotsmen are like that. They think in binary: jolly or angry. Zero or one.

You're not the only one who doesn't like the ego thing. I very nearly left a few days ago because of it. It's a strange contrast; despite the arrogance at FOG, Fate, the site's mother, is very sweet and unassuming, even in regards to her own writing abilities. The site can indeed attract drama whores and human puffer-fish, but it's not intentional, and there are nice peeps here too! That said, I'm almost never around because it's too easy for me to get pissed-off with them.

Nice to see some honesty (by which I mean, people who agree with me )
I mean, you use the term "artistic instinct" in the site description, and expect to have a group of humble, down-to-earth members?
I'm a narcissistic egomaniac, but like, it's okay when I do it 'cause I have a sense of humour about it.

Also, Emerald, you're really attracted to blonds aren't you? ^o_O^

I'm really not someone who should ever attempt to compete in a battle of looks. I would lose quite quickly in the real world. =3

Nah, I made an exception for you

[Gadreille]

Hmm, I understand your arguments...I just don't understand why you felt the need to argue them.

This may sound rude, but I'm honestly asking: why start off with a thread where, as you put it, you act like a cynical bastard?

I just don't understand. I try my best to be nice to everyone, and here you are seemingly enjoying putting others down. (At least, it seemed so in your first post.) I came here to give you a nice welcome, and instead get a nice slap in the face.

I'm pretty sure I've never acted 'snooty' before. Check my previous posts and see, if you'd like. I do know I've certainly never done anything to you, yet your general assumption of the community includes me and therefore I have to assume you don't like me.

Apparently the only people worth being nice to here are the hot girls, and I don't consider myself among that 'elite' group.

Oh well. Nice to meet you.

[Kathryn Lacey]

Well... You also made the exception for Fate, presumably, for you did state that she was the most attractive of the females on the site until she grouped you with the British. ^o_~^

Also, I consider Ryona to be among the hot girls more than I deem myself to be among them. I consider myself to be quite average, actually.

[Fluff]

This dude is so Irish it's not even funny.

[Kalon Ordona II]

I'm all curious to see what your style is like, now, Emerald.
You're painting us as egomaniacs whilst admitting that you yourself are one.
Who, then, is the real hypocrite?

Did any of us ever put you down for writing short posts?
How can you say we put down people with short posts when you've never made one? Because we have a length requirement?
Are you saying you can't deliver at least ten sentences per post? Please. It is really, really not that hard.
If you have quality, why not put out more of it? You have to learn to do that anyway, if you're going to end up writing anything of any length.
So, what, are you petitioning for the freedom to be lazy?

Stop whining and throwing accusations of ego in everyone's face.
You clearly have the ability to achieve the minimum required length, so I really don't see what you have to have a problem about.

[Emerald]

Apparently the only people worth being nice to here are the hot girls, and I don't consider myself among that 'elite' group.

Oh well. Nice to meet you.

Well, that's the difference between us. You are attractive, and you seem to have a boyfriend, so you've got every reason to be confident in yourself. But you don't seem to be, which means you were probably the type to get quite taken in when someone lavished you with praise and asked you to join. Which you nobody can be blamed for. Everyone likes to feel special.

But I have a massive ego, so I already feel special. And when people lavish me with praise I get suspicious and cynical as a knee-jerk reaction because most people only ever bother praising when they've got an agenda (e.g. salesmen). And I hate being manipulated, so again my knee-jerk reaction is to be a bit sarcastic about it.

However, you aren't the type of person I'm talking about. The general purpose of this thread was to rattle the cage a bit and see what happens. See, elitists and manipulative egomaniacs are a cautious prey, that like to camouflage themselves with insincerity and fake pleasantries (while secretly thinking how much better they are). It can be hard to tell them from the honest people. Until they get offended. The way to tell is that they blow it waaay out of proportion and start turning everyone against you (manipulatively) to try and defend themselves.

Something which I haven't quite noticed yet.

Also, it was funny.

Also, I consider Ryona to be among the hot girls more than I deem myself to be among them. I consider myself to be quite average, actually.

Yeah, but I'm Irish. It's a grass-is-greener sort of deal. Americans are considered quite exotic over here, believe it or not.
Na gcroí an domhain. Hearts of the world.

(Also, Fate was the first one I saw, not necessarily the best overall.)

[Gadreille]

Well, that's the difference between us. You are attractive, and you seem to have a boyfriend, so you've got every reason to be confident in yourself. But you don't seem to be, which means you were probably the type to get quite taken in when someone lavished you with praise and asked you to join. Which you nobody can be blamed for. Everyone likes to feel special.

Sorry to ruin your theory, but no one invited me here. I just found it via word of mouth and joined. No lavished praise was given, nor needed.

I'm confident, just humble. A trait some people love, and others find horribly annoying.

Edit: I have a husband, not boyfriend, and he's one of the 'elitist' people you've been arguing with. Therefore, I feel I should stand up for him as well, though he may not be as well mannered as I am

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