Ending School Yard Violence

[Guest]

Okay so I found this on a student congress website for several schools in the southern United States. This state forensic organization has a resolution calling for increased attention towards the safety of both students and staff working at middle and high schools.

The resolution is below:

A Resolution to End School Yard Violence

WHEREAS, In 2005 1.5 million students, aged 12-18, reported being victims of non
fatal crimes; and
WHEREAS, Eight percent of middle-school teachers reported being threatened
with physical injury; and
WHEREAS, The current penalties in schools have proven unable to deter crimes such
as assault and theft; and
WHEREAS, Students and teachers have a right to expect schools to be safe and
crime-free; therefore, be it
RESOLVED, By the Student Congress here assembled that: the state work with
schools to find a penalty that more effectively deters crime in schools; and, be it
FURTHER RESOLVED, That law enforcement take a more active role in crime
prevention at schools.

Now that really pissed me off. What blows my mind is that the people writing these legislations are students themselves. They should know that the penalties of the Zero Tolerance Policy are enough. In fact, I think they even cross the line a few times.

For instance, did you know that some schools hold students after the final bell until around 8:00 pm for simply not wearing their I.D. on campus? That was a public high school! What right does one have to hold a student after school that long for not abiding by a simple policy.

They argue security; but I argue KNOW YOUR DAMN STUDENTS! If a student or staff member appears to be acting in a suspicious manner, then do what you do with unattended luggage at an airport... report it! Have the person be kept under watch, if illegal activity is spotted to occur, then the right steps can then be taken. But if a student is simply going from one class to another, trying to get in the room before he/she's tardy; don't stop them and hold them until 8:00pm when school gets out at 3:00pm, just because they forgot to put on a string and stupid picture I.D. of them sticking their tongue out.

1.5 million students, aged 12-18, reported being victims of non
fatal crimes

Great, now focus on the body responsible for committing those crimes. Unless you can prove who it was, or narrow it down to a select group of individuals with concrete and reasonable evidence, then I see no reason to increase the repercussions of a system that is far too corrupt and oppressive.

be it FURTHER RESOLVED, That law enforcement take a more active role in crime prevention at schools.

We have schools with medal detectors, entire police squadrons performing patrols, and drug dogs being led into the classrooms. What more could you possibly want? This very issue was being debated way back in 1999 when the ACLU reached out to several school officials and urged them to THINK before they ACT, something schools have been trying to teach this very generation. Can somebody say "irony"?

Here's a snippet from an article regarding this issue back in 1999:

Nathan L. Essex, a dean at the University of Memphis, says schools should take pains to safeguard individual students' rights.

``When violent acts occur on school campuses nationwide, officials tend to act swiftly and aggressively,'' said Essex. ``Sometimes too swiftly and aggressively, without proper consideration regarding the constitutional rights of students.''

Essex warned that schools ``must resist the temptation'' to overreact. He urges schools to establish clear, legally distilled, well-circulated policies; to reserve extreme discipline for serious infractions that demand immediate action; and to afford a fair and impartial hearing to students facing even short-term suspension.

``We should treat students fairly, not because the courts mandate it, but because it is the right thing to do,'' said Essex. ``The seriousness of the situation, the student's past record of behavior and the urgency to act should be carefully considered prior to taking disciplinary action.''

And that's where I take my stand. Call me a rebel. But I think students aren't being saved from the right bully here. They need to be saved from their own protectors.

Feel free to cast your vote.

[Ragter the junior greeter]

the only thing I can agree with in your whole post, DJ, is the last part. When I was a kid, I was bullied a lot in school, and I mean a lot. If I ever tried to retaliate in any way, both me and the kid got punished. If I just told on the kid, the kid got punished, and would just go right back to doing it again.

The school I went to wasn't very firm at all, as you can see. They rarely suspended a kid, and if they did, he'd eventually come back and do something else once more.

So I say Yay. I found it odd that there isn't anything more then just Yay, Nay, or Abstain, considering how..well, complex the issue is.

[Guest]

That's how they do the voting in these Student Congress rounds. Its like an actual committee. There's always the option to Amend, but you have to "move" for it during a cycle. It can't be done during "previous question" (which basically calls for a vote to vote; but in this case, we're just skipping voting to vote, and going straight to vote..... >.> ....if that makes any sense what-so-ever....)

I respect your point of view. I'll admit that not all schools have the problems that I pointed out. But when the problems do occur they are often vicious and unforgiving.

[edit]

When I was a kid, I was bullied a lot in school, and I mean a lot. If I ever tried to retaliate in any way, both me and the kid got punished. If I just told on the kid, the kid got punished, and would just go right back to doing it again.

An example of the Zero Tolerance policy.

This very passive way of handling situations often leads to unwanted consequences, like the ones you mentioned above. Either nothing is done and the bullying gets worse (mostly because you are fueling the bully's rebellious attitude) or you go down with him; you are done an injustice. School's need to properly conduct investigations when it comes bullying incidences. If not handled properly, a bully will never feel regretful and will keep doing what they're good at.

[Gadreille]

I have a harsh view of this issue...

I say, take the parents down with them.

A kid that preforms a crime on or off campus should be punished; either by the school or by the government. Either way, their parent(s) should be forced to serve the time, community service, or whatever it is that the child has to do right along side their child.

It is so easy for parents to send unruly children off to be babysat in high school, ignoring the letters and phone calls and skipping parent conferences. They don't care where their kid is. If, however, they are forced to clean up graffiti in the hot sun along side their kid, then I think they would be more likely to give a damn.

I know this is unfair for the parents who are trying with their children, but there is no right answer. If a school is going to be treated like a child's day care, then yes, parents need to be more active.

The only other option, in my eyes, is to step back and make high school an open campus, optional choice in life. If you release the kids that don't want to be there, they can go off and do crime elsewhere and be (hopefully) caught by the police.

I would love this option, because I feel that high school does nothing to prepare a child for the real world. There are so many rules and restrictions, when you send your kid off to college they are overwhelmed by the freedom and sometimes fail because of it.

I know that neither of my suggestions have any real chance of working...but I just figured I'd share my silly little ideas with you.

[Guest]

The only other option, in my eyes, is to step back and make high school an open campus, optional choice in life. If you release the kids that don't want to be there, they can go off and do crime elsewhere and be (hopefully) caught by the police.

I would love this option, because I feel that high school does nothing to prepare a child for the real world. There are so many rules and restrictions, when you send your kid off to college they are overwhelmed by the freedom and sometimes fail because of it.

I know that neither of my suggestions have any real chance of working...but I just figured I'd share my silly little ideas with you.

Actually, Ryona, I like your last suggestion (the first is a little....different.... >_>). High school really doesn't teach me much (though I'm in a student of the "private" sector I can still see outside the box). I have public high school friends that are failing classes they enjoy because of classes they don't enjoy and don't need. When we look at the core classes I see nothing but "teaching the test" strategies and not enough "teaching to live". Basic math and English skills are indeed a necessity, but we forget these core values when we are handed a scientific calculator and taught the "shortcuts" for problems.

I challenge each high schooler here (private and public alike) to walk around to random students at your school and ask them "Do you know how to long-divide?". I can promise you that more than 75% will look at you like this:

My English instructor actually had to reteach some basic verb rules to us because we had forgotten how to write the simple English language. We were too used to writing complex essays that did more attention-grabbing than sense-making. Just look through each post in this board (even this one) and you'll find a grammar mistakes that an English professor would want to commit suicide over.

My point before I get too carried away: is the same as Ryona's. High school doesn't prepare us for reality. We should have the right to choose want we want to learn and when we want to learn it. Elementary thru Middle (Intermediate) school taught us the basic core principles. High school should be more like College = an alternative. Acquiring a Diploma would then mean more to employers. They value workers that strive to achieve something, and not just go with the flow of things. Nowadays, if you just have a Diploma, you're saying "Would you like fries with that?", not "Sure, I can re-schedule our meeting. You wanna play a round of golf with me and the guys Saturday?"

So basically, its not just in the rules and restrictions, as Ryona pointed out, but also in the curriculum - which in turn gives way to these restrictions because the curriculum is so screwed up its a fuel to adolescent rebellion. We were taught enough (both by our own parents as well as the school system) to think for ourselves to a certain level. And the level of recognizing corruption was surpassed long ago for most students.

/way-off-track rant....whoops.

[Gadreille]

Yea, I know my first suggestion is out there, and it's not originally mine. It's my grandfathers, and I agree with him. Sometimes I get annoyed at how little some parents do for their children, how little they interact with them. I could be half the mom I am now, and still be better than many parents out there. It sickens me that I work so hard at something, and get virtually no credit for it because Jane Blow down the street has ten kids and she's doing just fine (not to mention half her kids are delinquents, and the other half to young to know what that means, and all of them are sucking money off the welfare system). If parents were punished for their kids actions, you would begin to see which parents are doing their job...and which aren't. It's just the unfortunate few that are caught in between that this would be unfair for.

I do agree about the serious curriculum issues. I didn't mention it because this poll was about violence in schools, but since you've opened THAT door...

The general level classes at high school are pathetic. If the students aren't in college prep or above, they are wasting everyone's time and money. They should go out and get a job, hop in a trade school of choice, or jump off a cliff.

Those who are in college prep should be taking college level entry courses (which are also, in my mind, ridiculously easy) so they can get a feel for what they might want to do. It took me forever to find my major because, guess what? They don't offer anthropology in high school (at least the poor one that I went to).

So you spend four years getting a much more thorough college level general education. Now you can go out and get a bachelor's in two years or less! That would drive more people to go for a masters and a doctorate! (Yay for education!)

As for the students not pursuing college, I know it sounded as though I shoved them off, but in reality I didn't (except for the few that decided to jump off a cliff instead of work). These kids that are in general classes are likely to work entry level jobs or join a family business anyway. At least now they are getting experience earlier in life, as well as staying off the streets and not busting out my car window with a giant fire extinguisher. (true story...)

[Guest]

...

[Weiss]

I'm going to try and keep this short and simple, since it will easily turn into a rant if I let myself go.

Prisoners get food that beats the pants off of half the stuff I end up eating at home. They have rights. They get to watch television, play games, associate freely, and those are just some of the things they're allowed to do, completely disregarding the things they aren't but get away with anyway.

On a similar token, there are heavy restrictions on punishing minors. First off, if you so much as spank your child it can come under scrutiny from social services. Repeated 'abuse' can lead to legal action and you've got a huge problem on your hands. To make matters worse: the children know about this. They realize that your ability to physically reprimand them is severely limited.

So, what are you left with? You can ground your children, take away their videogames, their television, their radio, their cellphone, their...life, but what happens when even that doesn't faze them?

Crime isn't punished severely enough in America, on any level. As a juvenile or as an adult, the fact that you can get away with so much with so little punishment leads to a, "Why not?" take on life as a whole. You're poor, you want some money, so why not rob a store? You might get away with it, and if you don't, you serve a bit of jail time and then you're free to go with nothing else to be said of it. If your life is already in a rut and you feel you have little to lose, you may as well just go for the easy solution. As far as that goes, a homeless guy could commit a serious felony and get locked away in prison to improve his quality of life.

Prison isn't a wonderful place to be; that much is obvious by the very nature of a prison. However, it isn't as much of a punishment as it should be. Throw them in their cells with no music, no television - hell, take away their running water - and see how much then enjoy being locked away.

How does this apply to schools? Back in the day, teachers could use capital punishment to keep students in line from a young age. When you were a kid, you learned that doing something bad meant getting your ass kicked; and not by the school bully, either. The teacher was the one who was going to burn your bottom, slap your hands with a ruler or use other forms of punishment that would teach you why you shouldn't get on their bad side.

Bullying? Honestly, I think that's a pretty ridiculous subject. Children will always fight. Frankly, I'm more upset about the fact that each generation seems to produce a new level of pansy-ism. I was a pretty good student in school as far as behavior. My grades were average, teachers only had a moderate dislike for me, and despite that I've always had plenty of people around me who hated my guts, I only got into a few fights. I won a few, lost a couple, and that was part of my school life.

So what, you're the weak kid who dreams of being an accountant; can't possibly take on a bully? If that's your mentality, then get used to it. School is like the real world scaled down and dramatized. If you let yourself get pushed around, you'll always get pushed around. If you're too afraid to be outgoing and enjoy your life, those habits will stay with you for your entire life.

Some people will say that my mentality would increase violence in schools. Why is that? If a weak kid gets picked on, you think he'll bring a gun to school, right? But why would he resort to that? Simple. He's been raised to feel that he has the right to live without being harassed or bothered. The newest generation is so protected and so sheltered by laws and rules that they immediately resort to the "easy win" when they're faced with opposition. Because they have such weak resolve, and because that weakness is encouraged throughout their lives by government support and their assigned "freedoms", not only do they not want to fight back, they truly feel they shouldn't have to, and that someone else should be forced to stand up for them instead. The government, the administration; it's easy to blame everything on the higher-ups, and granted, those positions are usually filled with officials who couldn't care less, but why do you think that is? It's because everyone who's making the decisions about who should be seated in what office these days was raised on the same weak and pathetic morals that we're still striving to ingrain within the minds of the young.

So, what's my stand on the whole issue?

1. Rescind the laws that protect children from capital punishment. There is a huge line dividing punishment and abuse, and so long as that line isn't crossed - which may, God forbid, fall upon a judgment call by the proper authorities - there's no reason why it shouldn't be a viable option.

2. Stop raising children to be stuck-up little pansies who think they have the right to be treated well, respected, and allowed to live a wonderful life without the responsibility of fighting for it.

...
There, I think I've said my piece on the subject.

[Ragter the junior greeter]

Interesting mentality you got there Weiss, but since I'm no debater by any means, I'll just say one thing.

I'm not a stuck up little pansy, really, I'm not. I tried to stand up for myself by retaliating, by telling the school, by doing everything I could to get the bully away from me, but nothing worked, so I decided to stop trying to fight back against the bully and just take it silently. Nothing bad ever happened, unless you count my off the wall intros as bad.

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