IRC Link broken?

[Crazy Hobo]

Hi there, every time I try to click the IRC link it just sends me back to the home page in another tab. Is this just me or have other people been experiencing this?

[Chainlinc3]

I second this issue.

[Guest]

Yeah, same here. Is it because of the Chatbox in the bottom of the main page?

[Gunneh]

If you guys can't connect through the tab at the top, then the only thing I can really tell you to do is to go straight through the client at www.mibbit.com. The server is Darkmyst (or darkmyst.org) and the channel is #FOG.

Aside from that, there's always the option of actually getting an IRC client like ChatZilla (for Firefox users because it's a Firefox add-on), mIRC, IceChat, kvIRC or many different ones.

[Fate Flyer]

That's very odd. I went to the Administrative Panel to check on the link, and apparently it has been moved. I'm not sure what happened suddenly, since it was just working. I'm just going to remove the button, since I'm more of a fan of the chat at the bottom.

[quakernuts]

https://04.chat.mibbit.com/

That's the link to Mibbit, for those of you who would prefer to use that one instead of the one at the bottom. Best shortcut I can think of.

Darkmyst server
#FoG

[Lara]

Glad to hear it wasn't just my computer having the issue.

There's a link to the chat at the bottom? Craziness. I had no idea that existed...

-keeps the info for mibbit close, since she'll likely end up on that instead-

[The Ghost Writer]

Okay I've known about this issue for a while, and why it has taken me this long to respond I have no clue (blame it on the heat of Kuwait?). When I moved the IRC link to a Portal page I had moved the URL into the menu under the Headers section. Try checking the custom menu links again. I would be more specific with my nomenclature, but I stopped putting up with Forumotion boards a long time ago (they really hack me off). FOG is actually the only FM board I use today, consider me a community loyalist.

Anyway, if you can't seem to get the portal page to work, turn off the portal page and then re-install it manually using the Portals section. You also have the option of moving the embed code to its own HTML page, however I recommend against this. The reason I moved the IRC embed to a portal page in the first place was so I could use a widget. Forumotion let's administrators choose which types of users can see which widgets (Guests, Members, Moderators, Admins). I created the portal page and moved the IRC there in a widget and then set the permissions to where only Members would view it. I then created another widget and placed a notification that you must be logged into FOG to access the chat and set that widget to where only Guests would be able to view it (that way, logged-in users wouldn't have to read an unnecessary message).

If the portal is broken (and if it is then it's because Forumotion - pardon the French - fucked it up) then you can still access the original embed code. Remember the widgets? You can see the widgets I created by clicking on the Personal Widgets (I believe that's the name, if I remember correctly) tab and then open up the appropriately titled box (I should have been pretty Charlie Sheen about the title). Either recreate the portal page and replace the widgets in the center column, extending the column to 100% width (leaving the left and right columns at 0%) or create an HTML page and set the code in there.

Bear in mind that you will have to revisit the headers page and replace the Chat button and link in the main menu.

I hope I helped.

-Rec

EDIT:

That's very odd. I went to the Administrative Panel to check on the link, and apparently it has been moved. I'm not sure what happened suddenly, since it was just working. I'm just going to remove the button, since I'm more of a fan of the chat at the bottom.

By the way, for those of you who are confused, I'm not the one that broke the link. You guys have been using the portal page (probably unknowingly) since I first installed it. Whatever happened a couple of weeks ago to the link was more than likely Forumotion's doing.

Covering my own ass,
-Rec

[The Ghost Writer]

*cough* Bump *cough*

Did we try the above mentioned suggestions?

[Axiom Awaits]

I thank you for the information in that post. I wasn't aware that you had done all those things. I also appreciate the time and effort you invested in them because I know how much work that stuff can be. Unfortunately, I see that the portal page has been turned off, which is probably why the link stopped working (and was eventually removed).

With that said, Fate has mentioned before somewhere [probably in another thread] that we have decided not to link to a chat outside of the forum any longer. I understand that the chat at the bottom of the forum doesn't offer the same features as IRC, but we came to the conclusion that we would like the primary form of discussion be done through posting rather than in a real-time chat. It's basically an effort to boost activity on the forum which has been decreasing lately.

[The Melancholy Spirit]

Just going to be open about it, I don't really see trying to make discussion be through the forum as a means of helping activity. It will just end up with a ton of cluttered OOC posts in certain RP's where people have a much easier time getting together on a chat to discuss in real-time, which, frankly is much more efficient. Just stating my opinion on the matter.

[The Ghost Writer]

Ah, I see. That's all fine by me; I was just curious if someone read it.

As far as my opinion on raising activity through discussion vs. chat; I suppose I don't actually have one. However, I will offer this food for thought:

Every time I've logged into the chat and randomly threw myself into a witty discussion about [insert random subject here] I was always caught off guard by a sudden change in topic. This change was none other than the transition from randomness to a discussion concerning a particular roleplay or two. Granted, the IRC has its moments where we like to chat-snippet something funny and amusing, and to those gazing in from the outside and lurking behind the rosters, it seems like the IRC is nothing but a bunch of crazy people talking smack and launching "/me glomp" messages everywhere. However, give it ten minutes and I assure you that the randomness will abruptly stop and the participants will instantly begin saying things like "Hey go check out our RP, I just posted" and "Okay, I'll brb. Need to finish this post in the roleplay".

I've seen the IRC actually be more of a benefit to the forums than a deterrence. I use it from time to time to ask whoever is online if they would be interested in a roleplay, or to see which roleplays are actively seeking new participants. Live chatting is probably the best way to generate activity in the forums because you can share links live with other members of the board and post quick reminders to "check out this thread" or bug people about posting in an RP.

As far as whether or not we use an internet-relay plugin or Forumotion's own pre-installed chat is another debate entirely. But in the long run, they're both options of live chatting, and it's live chatting that is actually keeping what little propaganda activity there is for the forums alive.

Just food for thought.

-Rec

[Axiom Awaits]

Right on, guys. It's good to read some feedback on the topic. You both make good points. Does the chatbox on the forum provide an adequate place to chat or no?

[The Ghost Writer]

I don't really have a problem using FM's chat box. I actually would love to see more people active on it. Even though the auto-away is a little annoying to some, I love the fact that it integrates the same BBC that we use on the board, plus our familiar emoticons. If you spiced it up to fit in better with some CSS, and re-positioned it in a more noticeable place (such as a portal page, or perhaps a pop-up window via javascript) then I'm sure it would be more active.

[The Melancholy Spirit]

Well, there is one thing I love about the chatbox at the bottom of FoG. That we log in with our FoG account itself, keeping people who have nothing to do with FoG out of it.

However, there are some issues. You can't open a private message on the chatbox to someone to discuss a more delicate matter of an RP or anything, for one. At least, not that I have seen. There is also the matter that if you stay idle for, fifteen minutes I believe, it terminates you automatically. Also if you leave the homepage it takes you away from the chat, although that isn't such a big deal considering that you can pop-out the chatbox into another window. Overall, I personally find that it has more annoyance than actual use, and a decent amount of the 'regulars' in the IRC chat felt the same way, and we did use the chatbox at the bottom for several days so it wasn't just a blind bias that made us stick with IRC, rather just a preference so we went back to it.

[The Ghost Writer]

I'm not sure why such issues, however, are hindering much of anything at all. If you send a PM on the message board, simply say "Hey check the PM I sent". If it kicks you because of inactivity, simply click "Log In" and if you want to see messages that you missed, simply click "Archives". Essentially, it offers the same benefits of an IRC, but it's all integrated into the board. Fate and Axiom would be able to set up actual moderators for the chat box via the ACP and designate their permissions accordingly. The commands for the chat box and the commands for an IRC channel are essentially the same.

Going back to what I said about the BBC, check out the archives in the chat box now for a quick demonstration.

[The Melancholy Spirit]

Well, no I mean a private message as in a seperate, let us say channel, where you have a conversation simply between two people. Like if a GM wanted to discuss something with a specific participant they could, on the IRC, open up a private channel between just them so it wouldn't risk spoilers for other people or such.

[The Ghost Writer]

No I understood what you meant. It's true that the chat box doesn't offer private channels; but that's what the whole private messaging system on the board is for.

Opening up a PM on FoG and a PM in an IRC channel are basically one in the same. You may not have an instant notification (other than the pop-up, but that requires you to refresh the page or traverse to another FoG URL), but that's what gentle nudges are for in the chat.

The ultimate reason why I would prefer the current chat box over an IRC channel is for uniformity. This may be the military side of me speaking, but it honestly looks more professional. There's nothing I hate more than simply tossing around code and plug-ins because they're "cool" and have a ton of features. What matters is the integration, ease-of-use (which I have found it to be), and uniformity. An IRC involves understanding what a server and channel are, creating a new username each time, or downloading and setting up a third-party plug-in (like chatZilla). It has ads, mismatching colors, and it's easy to tell that it's a simple iframe thrown into a page. If we could edit the CSS for the iframe plug-in, then that would fix the uniformity. Unfortunately we can't, and if we did, then it wouldn't take away from the fact that it's not ours.

[The Melancholy Spirit]

Well, while I agree with your points in that last paragraph about keeping things more simple and not just tossing things into the mix because they are cool, I disagree with the uniformity thing. I think the biggest deal is that for some people, it is just overall a preference that the IRC itself works much better for them personally.

As for a private channel in the IRC and a PM on FoG being one and the same, I have to strongly disagree on that point as I find having a real-time conversation with someone to be much more efficient if you can do it, and then when the conversation is done, if you need to save things, either or both parties can save the chat and PM it themselves here on FoG which would keep from having a cluttered PM box. Which, I know, for some people isn't an issue but for me, personally, the PM amount isn't very high here and I end up saving a decent amount of things and were I to use that for the discussions I have done with people pertaining to RPs it would simply become overwhelming.

Overall, I don't think the ease of use is much better with the chatbox than the IRC. The IRC might have more of a 'learning curve' than the chatbox, and it could be an annoyance for some people having to create another name and such (again, as I stated, that is really the one thing I prefer about the chatbox for FoG itself) I think such things are somewhat trivial and not really that much of a hassle. Understanding what a server and channel are seem to be pretty basic things too that, even if you don't know what they are, you can easily be informed by, more or less, anyone who would be on at the time and shouldn't be hard to understand in a matter of minutes.

[The Ghost Writer]

It seems we have reached a impasse, my good sir.

[The Melancholy Spirit]

So it would, sir. So it would.

[Gunneh]

I'm going to keep the IRC channel going either way if it's all the same to you, Axiom. That way the people that are partial to the IRC can still use it as well as the chatbox or just posts in the forums.

[Axiom Awaits]

That's cool if you want to do that, Gunneh.

Well, there is one thing I love about the chatbox at the bottom of FoG. That we log in with our FoG account itself, keeping people who have nothing to do with FoG out of it.

That's one of the reasons for using the chatbox. Not so much to keep non-members out, but more to keep things streamlined. I agree that not having an IM function is a bit of a drawback and the 15min idle log out is probably annoying. I wish I could change that.

[quakernuts]

Even though this has been fought over all ready, and seems to be a given as to what is happening with it, I wanted to give my thoughts on the matter anyways.

For those of you voting against having our old chat back (Ghost, Fate, etc.) I would like to ask just how many times you go on chat at all? I personally am on there at least for a couple hours each night before bed, when all of the other regulars are on there, and I never see you guys.

I'm not saying this to insult you, or call you out even though it may appear that way, but what I am saying is that the option for the chat room should go to those who use it on a regular basis. If you start making yourself known to us, to those who actually use the thing, then I won't have anything to argue about.

Basically, I just want to say that it feels unfair that people who rarely, if ever use the chat box are getting the say on whether or not it stays. You say you like the chat box at the bottom of the page, which is your opinion. But if you like it so much, and think it is so much better, why does no one use it?

Food for thought.

[The Ghost Writer]

I'm in Kuwait (and an assortment of different time zones every other day). That's why you don't see me much right now. But I understand what you're saying. It's true that I'm not much of a visitor in the IRC, but I definitely try to be whenever I'm online. Heck, I'm usually a stealth plane orbiting the internet, with windows open up for Facebook's chat, Twitter's status feeds, FoG's forums, my own blog's statistics, and countless other sites (not to mention external programs, like Skype and Google Talk). The only why you don't see me, in particular, is because of my unusual time zone and the circumstances revolving around why I'm where I'm at.

I mostly argue my case based on the chat program itself; not the activity, nor its familiarity. However, I understand that people don't use it because it's not familiar to them. Also note that I'm actually pretty neutral on whatever we choose to stick with. In the long run, a chat is a chat, hands down. I even gave specific instructions as to how to fix it, and re-integrating the IRC into the new pop-up chat that Axiom has implemented (bravo on that too, by the way, Axiom) is as easy as a quick copy-paste of the iframe code provided by the client.

[Axiom Awaits]

You con definitely continue to use a FoG IRC channel. If Gunneh would like to keep that going, that's awesome! Bookmark it or save it in your client and continue to go there to chat with fellow FoG'ers. Fate and I just decided to no longer link to it from the forum.

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