Re: Emoria: World-Building OOC

[Dax]

Ok, so I have been watching this go on and on passively and I thought I would state my opinion on this now.

I would like to state, first of all, that Alos should not only be an NPC, but it is necessary he becomes one. I know Kalon said he doesn’t mind that, so that should be done. I am kind of ‘meh’ on the council, but I guess it could have one… although to think of it the council would be Kalon and I anyway, since Am is abandoned. Or I may be wrong… ANYWAY, IN SHORT, Alos an NPC, yes.

I think mind control should go. Why? He will never use it, just having it is OP and it has nothing to do with the Light, as Loki mentioned before me. The rest of his power is kind of too strong, but as long as he cannot/will not use them, that is fine (in theory).

Also, I think Alos should be ABLE to die. The whole ‘If he dies, we are all going to die’ is too much for me to swallow. It doesn’t make any sense anyway. Don’t you try to explain it to me; I understand your arguments leading up to proving your point on why it is possible, I just think it shouldn’t be so. Like Hermes stated before, I think Alos should be able to die, and when he does his ‘energies’ disperse back into the Light Plane and then they just reform and make an entirely new ‘Lord’ of light, with differentiating mentalities and physique. It is just like diminishing, just slightly tweaked. This could also account for why Alos is who he is, which is, according to me, a little rebellious, nosy incarnation of the Lord of Light. Which is probably why the Thendari started when it did and not since the beginning of time (before the elemental wars, etc), because, possibly, the Lord of Light in that time (Who would have had a more conservative ideal) could have been killed and the newly formed one, Alos, had a different idea of how to run things, hence the Thendari in the Material plane, etc. Now, that is just a huge rambling, but I am just saying: it makes sense with the lore if chosen.

A little parentheses here… if that is the most plausible solution, I think I can see one hell of a possible twist for after Morgarath is dead : Alos, the nosy rebellious Lord of Light becomes corrupt with now counter balance and we have to kill him to replace him with a new Lord of Light! Ok, that was just a spitball idea for the distant future (that we will never reach at the rate the IC is going) and I do not want a huge post session going on in response to this. If anyone posts in regards to this, a kitten will die! Ok, maybe not… but you get the idea. xD

Also, I think that Alos is having too big of a role to play in general. Making him an NPC is a good start to stopping this, but having him interact to the point of him fighting battles is a huge no-no. I just think, as has been stated before, again, that having a god, because that is indisputably what he is under his current form, in Emoria is against our Constitution!( A.k.a Ryona’s and Silvone’s rulebook) So, by consequence, he should not only be NPCed, but have his role in Emoria reduced. Have him show up only rarely on the Material plane, have him never leave the proximities of the Rift or wherever he pops out of on his visits and that’s it. He is the Lord of Light, not the Lord of Light Sent To Rule Over Material Plane Species. If you say that he is like she Shadow Lords, and the Shadow Lords had to make a Material Plane avatar to rule over some parts of the Material Plane, then Alos should not be entitled to doing what his equals cannot.

By the way, what happened in the Third Illurian War is not really clear to… well… anyone. Me and Raptor left it at: Morggy was surrounded, badly wounded, SOMETHING happened, boom, Morg gone. He wasn’t killed, but he didn’t diminish () either. He just had to sit in his tower, recover and rethink his strategy, because it obviously was not working since he got his ass whooped by Priests and their allies.


Edit: On a side note: who wants to post in MoN?
Edit Edit: And whats up with Sretin?

[Guest]

Thank you, Dax. You stated just about everything I wanted to.

[Gadreille]

What's up with Sretin is we are likely going to be pressing on without Eternity. Because chainlinc is reliant on her somewhat, I'm thinking someone should steward her lands. Technically, though, she has a week to respond (having not responded for a week already, not including two facebook messages I sent weeks ago).

Of the six people, only one responded (this person not really needing to be on the list anyway), two read the message but have not responded, and three have not read the message at all. After a week, those who don't get back to us will either have their lands stewarded or scrapped, depending on the dependency of their worldspace.

So...expect an Emoria revamp pretty soon...

Edit: It angers me that we are possibly losing FIVE players...I promise I will be more careful about future people who want to join. Also, of the five, two worldspaces can possibly be scrapped, but the other three are going to be needing stewards.

[Bird of Hermes]

Edit: It angers me that we are possibly losing FIVE players...I promise I will be more careful about future people who want to join. Also, of the five, two worldspaces can possibly be scrapped, but the other three are going to be needing stewards.

Aww. That's not good. =(

[Dax]

Whoa, that's no fun. Although, I guess, on the bright side, we will move along faster with less people...

Although I'd rather keep our family going strong, Emoria was getting rather large.

Who are these people, so everyone can realize who may be in need of stewarding/scrapping/massive, concentrated efforts to revive them.

[Gadreille]

Have not heard back from

Gunneh
Fluesopp
Eternity
Spectre (Silvone and I will be taking care of his stuff)
The End

[Kalon Ordona II]

I've been doing a lot of work on Alos for the past few hours. Not done yet; just wanted to let you all know to expect a post relatively soon. Ish. I think.

[Guilty Carrion]

I understand Ryona. And it will ease the paranoia, I know it will, with him being an NPC, preventing him from just blasting anyone not in agreeance with his faction(again, not saying Kalon will, just that power is tempting, aye?) And I'm fine with others having power, a lot of the beef comes from his power COMBINED with being immortal.

Dax gets win points, I'm pretty much in agreence with what he said. I'm also fond of reforming the 'heads' of the planes in the result of their untimely demise. Maybe the next one will be a Lady of Light, seems like we could use a few more powerful women figures in Emoria.

As for stewarding...I'd offer to help, but with the MON, and a crap ton of plans with so many different people in regards to the south, I really couldn't do another. However, with people leaving, it's bringing a very well...large problem to the other contienant. It's got...really nothing on it. Nothing to really worry about right now, but...it could be a problem later.

[Kalon Ordona II]

Alright, I'll get started on a revised Alos, incorporating everything we've talked about.
A sort of Version 2.0. ^_^

*workworkwork*

After some pondering, I've come up with two three directions. I'm fine with either way--and, of course, each option is up for tweaking--so I'd like everyone's input. Take each option as entirely distinct from the others; the lore will be a bit different in each.

In Option 1, NPC, Alos is supposedly the highest being of the Light Plane who is supposedly sent by the supposed Highest of the Spirit Plane. This model keeps the Light/Shadow dichotomy but pushes it back into the realms of the deliberately unknown. He is a powerful being that cannot die in the current Sundered state of the world, but he is more confined to the Light Plane than in previous iterations.

In Option 2, PC, Alos's title "Lord of Light" actually refers to a more ambassadorial position, though still of relatively significant power and still supposedly sent by the supposed Highest of the Spirit Plane. His powers are much weaker than in Option 1, and he is not as fundamentally attached to the Light Plane, though he is a unique denizen of it.

In Option 3, NPC, Alos is totally re-imagined from the ground up, starting from the foundations in the Info thread.


You know, actually, nevermind, I'm leaning toward heavily leaning toward doing Option 3. At this point I'm just including the other two options just because I spent so much time on them. It's been like 6 7 hours all together. So, go ahead and skip the other two unless you're interested. I'll still submit the concept of the portals in Option 2, though, outside of the spoiler, just because I'm still curious about it. I'm as gung-ho with 1 portal-link each as I am about tons of portals and nexus points. (There is that complicated combination system, after all.)



OPTION 1:
up for consideration to be put into the NPC category in the info thread:
(as opposed to under the rest of the character icons under "Kalon")

I've kept a lot but also added a LOT of vagueness, like regarding age and motivations and things. Though there might not appear to be that many changes, please read the whole thing anyway. There are little things throughout, many things cut away, and plenty revamped.

Spoiler:

OPTION 2:
up for consideration as a Player Character
(as opposed to an NPC)

This option has less vagueness and less power. I forget if we ever came to a consensus about the portals, so if the concept is off then I'll be happy to apply the appropriate changes. I'm operating under the assumption that no plane has a portal to the Spirit Plane, and also that no plane has a portal to its direct opposite. That is to say, earth has no air portal, air has no earth portal, water has no fire portal, fire has no water portal, shadow has no light portal, and light has no shadow portal, everyone has a material portal, and no one has a spirit portal.
The way I visualize it, there would be a total of 16 portals: AF/FA, AL/LA, AM/MA, AS/SA, AW/WA, EF/FE, EL/LE, EM/ME, ES/SE, EW/WE, LF/FL, LM/ML, LW/WL, SM/MS, SW/WS, WM/MW. That would explain the need for a complex combination system.
Anyway, I guess that was a tangent. Back on track, here's Option 2.

Spoiler:

OPTION 3:
up for consideration as a Non-Player Character, like Option 1.

Here's a clean slate approach to the problem and solution that is Alos. ^_^
Important points in Option 3:
~ The preivous information in our archives voids a lot of what I had in the recent character sheet. This version is more true to the original intent. Also, I was wrong the first time to make him of a size with most other creatures; I'd forgotten he's a bit bigger; I'll need to increase the size of his portrait by 50%.
~ It is unclear how much Alos was involved in the development of the twenty-six quendë families. It could have been not at all; it could have been meticulously planned; it could have been somewhere in between.
~ This iteration is in some ways even more vague than Option 1, since it's a reimagining and not a renovation.
~ This version scraps the Light/Shadow dichotomy to a certain extent, but it keeps the jurisdiction concept, in which greater influence can only operate through channels of free choice. Following this train of logic, it seems reasonable to assume that the Planes differ on more levels than previously imagined. The concept is that planal elements are all present in all planes, though in differing proportions, and that they manifest and operate with enormous disparity from one Plane to the next.
~ This Alos appears to have kept more to his own affairs and is therefore more concerned with balance than with conquest, making the encroaching Shadow the bad guys.
~ Alos is good-natured enough to be loved by the Thendári, casting doubt on hypothetical ulterior motives.
~ This Alos is also more passive, except where matters concern the Thendári, whom he has apparently come to love as much as his own people.
~ This version heavily employs the Deliberate Unknown principle. Since we want a character sheet but we don't want to know anything about him for certain, you're not allowed to laugh at or object to the ambiguity. I'm thinking it'd be best to put more faith in our role-playing skills, especially since Alos will be an NPC. He can have whatever powers we want, is what it comes down to. We'll discuss what to have Alos do when it comes time for Alos to do something.


Character: Alos, Lord of Light
Age: Assumed to be as old as the Light Plane
Gender: Apparently Male
Species/Race: Unknown. He does not appear to be Araltári like his people. Rather his form seems to be of a kind with humans and elves. His voice can be comforting, clear, and inspiring, its tone male and not so much deep as it is softly resonant. Alos does speak the Araltári language (or they speak his), but either through this speech or by his own power he is able to make his meaning understood even if the hearers do not know the words. Since he has been around for all of recorded history, it is assumed that he is immortal.
Occupation: Ruler of the Light Plane
Appearance: Alos stands at 10' 7" and is most often clothed with a taste for simplistic elegance. Though he is more than twice the size--not height--of any elf, his build is similarly lithe. His everpresent glow of Light radiates in rippling patterns affected by movement. He always carries a golden staff, as much a symbol of his power and authority as it is another source of Light. The staff is also an instrument capable of producing harmonic sound in response to mental projections. Also, if he were ever to enter the Shadow Plane, he would wear a cloak, hiding beneath an artificial shadow to avoid moving through the real atmosphere of the plane. This would minimize the constant damage he sustains. His staff would lose all of its glow while he is there.
Known Skills: Alos has a photosonic memory--everything he hears or sees is recorded, with perfect recall.
Powers: Unknown. It is demonstrated that they stem from the element and energies of Light.
Strengths: Unknown. It is assumed that he is significantly stronger in the Light Plane than in any other.
Weaknesses: Unknown. It is assumed that he is significantly weaker in the Shadow Plane than in any other.
History: Unknown prior to the thendári Age of Illumination. It is assumed that he was involved in the Origin Wars and has been around since the Light Plane came into being, long before the Sundering. It is known that, prior to the Avari Transgression, Alos had not set foot in the Material Plane for a significant, though unspecified, length of time. Since the origins of the Thendári, Alos has supervised not only the Light Plane as always but also the country of Aendrel, having set up a residence near the Light Portal within the Material Plane--around which, naturally, the hierarchies of Aendrel government came to revolve.
Alos's original assignment from the Spirit Plane was to help the Thendári learn to guard the Rift, though why Alos was chosen for this task is a mystery. The Thendári have strong reason to believe that it was because of some deep affinity on their part for the nature of the Light Plane. Though perhaps it is no more complex than that a guide was needed, and what better force to serve as guide than Light. Whatever the truth, Alos grew attached to the Thendári. He saw in them a way to counter the steady spread of Shadow, and he has stayed with them long past fulfilling his apparent duty.

World-space: The Light Plane, home of the Araltári race, its lands suspended above the skies of the Material. Its seas are not of a kind with the Material, but are great expanses of suspended moisture, crossed in buffeted, prismatic flight. Its lands, hills and forests glow with spectral light, and its dwellings gleam golden.
Sentients: The Araltári, beings of light who live for creative expression and communion.
Government: Variety is valued and violent conflict is impossible, so there is little need for government as such. Any need for guidance or resolution is supplied by Alos. Anything he doesn't have time to take care of is allowed to continue, out of curiosity as much as anything else, until Alos can get around to examining it.
Allies: Aendrel, of the Material Plane.

[Shadow Moonseye]

Just a note, I'll write up my thoughts on all this later--most likely Saturday night. I just haven't had the energy to sit down and write it all out yet.

[Dax]

I was thinking while speaking with Plague and writing up my post for Vatienne and... other than the Velorens, what nations has Vatienne had prior relations with on the other continent, if any? If I forgot you guys its just because I just about forgot everything and Plague has been graciously spending alot of his time refreshing my memory. This is mainly just me seeing who will come help the free peoples during the Great War that is coming up. *queue dramatic pose and music*

I am not even sure I have had any relations with other nations than the Veloren on the other continent other than the Fae, but maybe I forgot. ^^

Edit: Kalon, do you want to post in MoN?

[Kalon Ordona II]

Yeah, sure. I'll get to work asap. ^_^
I have some overdue in Sephiris and Celebrant, and Adensborough, first, but they should finally be forthcoming. I'm wary of giving estimated times to completion, because they always seem to jinx me. Gotta figure out why and work over that. Anyways! Onward and upward! ^_^

[Guilty Carrion]

Hopefully soon, I'll get the rest done, but for now, here are the currently reworked Sythen(name is subject to change).

Sythen

Origin

In a time long before the great wars of Illuria, and the great rise of shadow, there existed the Sythen, or as they were once know by the primitive species of the world, krisshauth. As thick as a man, and fast as a worg, krisshauth relentlessly slithered through the catacombs and pathways of the Mountains of Night, always seeking the necessary food to sustain them. Despite the absence of legs, they could easily scale up the sides of mountains, and tunnel their way through solid rock, thanks to the reptile’s naturally occurring earth magic, fastening their frames to the mountain or allowing them to push through solid stone as if it was loose sand.

When Morgarath claimed the mountains as his own, he saw the krisshauth and their power, and the dark lord deemed them fit for his designs. With a patience only a being of darkness could possess, he began to corrupt, and change the krisshauth into what would become the Sythen. Countless generations passed, and slowly, the serpents began to sprout arms, and move more upright, and their magical talents grew darker and more inspired by their corrupter.

As the first glimmers of sentience entered their mind, Morgarath appeared before them, announcing himself as their creator, and the great god that raised them out of savagery. He cast of their old title, and renamed them the Sythen, the children of Shadow. They believed his words, and drank the poison of his promises eagerly, learning great and potent dark magicks in exchange for their unwavering loyalty. Since their creation, they have worked tirelessly in his name, and are his most loyal of servants.

Appearance

Sythen still look much like their serpentine ancestors, their bodies barely humanoid enough to recognize the intent, but still more than mostly alien to the other species of Emoria. Their heads are broad and long, with thin ‘fin’ like crests sprouting out just behind their ear hole. They possess a forked tongue, although these have the disturbing ability to seemingly ‘fold’ into a single tongue, enabling them to speak common without difficulty should they be so inclined. Their upper torso resembles that of a human, save for the absence of any breasts and/or nipples, as the Sythen are of reptilian descent. They are covered in thick scales from head to toe, that range from light black, to ashen grey. Sythen have thin ‘fin’ crests on the top of their skull, which flare up when they are threatened and also when using their magic. These crests are often varying shades of crimson. Males also possess a set of crimson scales that runs down the center of their back, and is one of the few ways to tell the gender of a Sythen.

As a whole, Sythen rarely wear clothing, as they are most comfortable in their own skin, and there is really nothing to see, as all their reproductive organs are internal until in use, making clothing a truly pointless affair.

Culture

The Sythen live in large groups in the numerous cave systems of the MON, happy to move amongst ash fall and their own kind.

Fervent worshippers of the dark lord, the Sythen eagerly seek to gain his favour however they can, be it through the completion of his tasks, capturing of slaves, or even ritualistic sacrifice. Their prays are spoken in a tongue no species can understand naturally, and it is not uncommon for people to feel…unsettled in the presence of a praying Sythen.

Despite their ‘evolution’, the serpents still breed slowly, an adaptation from their early existence they are incapable of overcoming. When a female Sythen is fertilized, she lays dozens of eggs, but most of these eggs serve as decoys. Two or three eggs will actually be fertilized, whilst the others are meant to simply increase the odds of those eggs surviving long enough to hatch. As such, Sythen do not practice ‘mate’ exclusivity, instead breeding freely with others to ensure the survival of the species as a whole. Most Sythen have what is known as a Melding, their equivalent to a marriage or a mating rite.

Melding occurs between Sythen pairs

Melding is a process which, through the use of the Sythen’s potent magicks, allows the Melded full access into their partner’s minds. The two become linked permanently, able to sense the thoughts of their partner, feel their emotions, some even capable of experiencing the pain and pleasure of their partner. Thanks to the Melding, despite the ‘unfaithful’ ways of the Sythen, it allows the two to truly feel connected unlike any other, and it is only amongst Melded that any ‘recreational’ sex occurs, as normally, Sythen simply lack the drive.

Powers

Under construction(suggestions are welcome, as I am drawing a total and absolute blank)

As for Kalon's three sheets...I don't really have the time to type up all my thoughts, but the first one that immeadiatly comes out at me is this. We aren't saying that we don't want to know how it works. What's being said is that it's too much, regardless of how much vagueness it gets buried in.

On a more personal note, I would personally, at least from an OOC standpoint, to have ALL spirit plane involvment to be withdrawn from Alos, and from most(preferably all) of the war. He can claim it all he'd like, but...I myself, and a few others in chat(again, SPEAK UP. Please?) feel that this really is feeling like a stack for a certain side, and whilst it dosen't mean that the highest is going to be god, it just shoves more and more of a "Good good good good" onto one side's shoulders, plus, if the highest, god or not is seriously doing things, even if it was sending Alos to do this, it's a giant comfirmation of a single religions beliefs, whilst we're all keeping our gods completely uninvolved(with the exception of those worshipping Morgie) and almost all of the other gods don't even have a 'non-god' form that's actually in existance.

I hope that made sense.

On a side note...why the sudden jump in height? He went from 6'5 to 10'7...

I'll try and type something more indepth another day. Got enough on my plate for now. Thanks for your time.

[Kalon Ordona II]

The sudden jump in height was unavoidable; I toned it down as much as I could. It stems from a description I had forgotten about in my worldspace sheet and histories, meaning I never should have made him normal height in this new CS in the first place.

As for the rest of it, I'll keep saying this as many times as people keep asking: the "the Highest" thing cannot be proved either way. It could totally be a conspiracy or it could be all true or it could be some combination. It happens there are disadvantages to this method, even though they are outweighed by the advantages. The disadvantage is that ambiguity limits our scope. Basically, we can't bring in the Spirit Plane even if we wanted to. Which we don't, because one of the rules is that the Spirit Plane is off limits. All we can know about it is that it's where dead spirits go, and that it's bigger than all the other planes.

We know there were planal wars. We know there was a sundering. We know there's a rift (and will be more, when Morgarath gets going--unless that's been changed). And there's the dead and size of the Spirit Plane that I just mentioned. So somehow we have to reconcile all that with the Deliberate Unknown principle imposed upon all this. The Spirit Plane impacts the rest of our worldspaces, and we have to deal with that without shedding light on the Spirit Plane's mysteries. All my encounters with the Spirit Plane fall into this safe zone, as far as I can tell.

The Light Plane, on the other hand, is not off-limits like the Spirit Plane is. The Light Plane can be defined insofar as everything past the Deliberate Unknown line remains uncertain. My current plan is to use the latest CS of Alos as a safe foundation that can be edited. I'm choosing not to define his powers at this point because everybody seems to think they know what his limits should be. I'm scrapping all that for now because I think that kind of thinking will ruin our story. He might be an NPC, but he's under my supervision. I'm playing the Light Plane. I'm more than happy to listen to input, but you may consider it my territory. Alos's moral alignment is ultimately up to me. And I say: despite imperfections, Alos is one of the good guys. That means he will try to do the "right thing" as best he can judge, and he will act according to what he deems will best preserve quantity and quality of life.

If the problem is reconciling that with the Deliberate Unknown of the Spirit Plane, there is enough ambiguity to suggest the possibility that Alos is either deceiving or deceived. And there are also those imperfections I mentioned. Though I didn't delineate them all in this post--indeed, since not all of them have even been conceived yet--they allow for as much flexibility as we will ever need. If that doesn't satisfy concerns, nothing short of fundamental changes to Emoria at large will do so.

[Guilty Carrion]

No. Kalon, the light plane cannot be your territory. Because if it is then you are breaking the very rule raptorman broke and got kicked from Emoria for. You cannot have two world spaces. That is the rules, that Ryona and Silvone have laid out from the very beginning. So unless they say that you're the special exception to this rule, no. The light plane can't be yours. Simple as that. Hermes dosen't control all the planes, she's just stewarding them. I'd hope for the same from you.

And everyone seems to be saying a lot of the same stuff, Kalon. That he shouldn't be immortal. That all this power is too much. He's too involved. Silvone himself agreed with what Dax said. So, address that for me. Does it seem like we're all saying different things?

As for the spirit plane, why DOES it need to be involved? Why? It's the resting place of the dead. So, the dead go there. Big whoop. You are, as far as I can tell, the ONLY nation that actually INTERACTS with the resting place of the dead. Everyone else, minus Am, who is under your stewardship last I heard, either dosen't believe in it, or worships some abstract being from it. No one else has anything else to do with it. Just you. I asked, not even from a character standpoint, that we have an OOC confirmation, that the spirit plane is not getting involved at all. Does this undermine your plans? No, characters don't know what we know, or at the very least, they shouldn't. I think it's rather reasonable to ask for the Spirit Plane to stay in it's mists, and not do anything with the world. Let the dead stay dead, and let the living solve their problems themselves, yeah?

And what exactly are you saying with that kind of thinking will ruin our story? What thinking? The sorting things out OOC before they rear their ugly head in the actual thread and we have to veto pages and pages of work?

Also, I thought the one point we had all managed to agree on was NPCing Alos, and putting him into a 'council' esque sorta deal?

And I'm just going to flat out say this, and let what ever comes flying at my face come flying. I'm tired, extermely tired, Kalon. I am more than aware, of how much it sucks for someone to come at you. To poke at your creations, and tear at them for all their worth. I've dealt with it. I've dealt with it, and traded blows with arguably half or more of the Rpers in this RP over my own. I took several MONTHS of abuse, and was forced into positions I didn't want to be in. I understand FULL well, what you're likely feeling right now. But with all the respect I can possibly muster, honestly, HONESTLY, this is breaking my desire to continue with this role play.

I can't express how that makes me feel, honestly. We've all fought, battled, bit, clawed and scratched to get anywhere in this RP. I've got plans, hopes, half-baked thoughts, and random musings for this RP at any given moment in my day. We all do. It's infectious.

But...we're not making headway. This conversation has run full circle, and it seems Alos is back to where he was when we were all asking for a CS. Is there a point in continuing? I don't know...half the time, I feel like...I'm just here to provide the cannon fodder for this grand crusade that you and the other players have planned. Is it true? I don't know. I'm told I need to be more open to collaboration, more giving and yet, it seems like others never have to be collaborative at all.

Do my concerns get heard? I hope. I don't know. I'm tired. I'm drowning in things to do for this RP, and I feel like any point I make is ignored because my species can throw a mean punch and not think a bush is a person with a magical trick. Why do I bother when I'm told "No, those things you made would be utterly decimated with ease in the face of mine?" or when there's been ten and a half argue sessions that are all about wiping my species clean off the map?

I just don't know anymore. If Ryona and Silvone think what you've said is fair, then I'll just place my faith in their judgement. I just want to enjoy this rp again, and having to constantly be the harsh one, or speak for those who won't bloody do it themselves...that's not enjoying this RP.

As far as I'm concerned...this is the last time I'm weighing in on Alos. I'm tired, upset, frustrated, and...I don't know what else. Ignore everything I've said if everyone wants, or read it and hate me, or whatever everyone decides. As for future issues...we'll see what the day brings when we start burning bridges again. I'm just sick of all this...

Come Whatever May,
Plaguewalker

[Guest]

Sorry if anyone gets mad at me, but I have reached a decision on Alos. I have read everyone's arguments, and I have done my best to be fair. In my opinion, for the sake of this role-play, this is how things have to be.

> Alos is from this point on an NPC.
> Alos will be controlled by a council of three: Kalon the creator, Bird of Hermes who stewards the planes, and Dax, who has IC connection with Kalon's world-space. (If Dax or Bird of Hermes refuses, I will find someone else).
> Kalon cannot have two world-spaces, so the light plane is NOT under his control. However, it can be stewarded by the council.

If anyone has any requests or concerns, feel free to PM me. But the issue of Alos, outside of its relevant council, is now closed. I do appreciate everyone's input, because as Plaguewalker has argued it is for the sake of the story and saving much future effort. However, it has derailed the role-play for far too long.

---

Today is the two week mark for deleting inactive members from the role-play. I received a response from a total of....1 person. So, here is how things are going to be.

Because of a lack of integration and interaction with other members, the world-spaces of Fluesopp (who read the message and did not respond) and The_End (who did not read the message) will be deleted completely.

Eternity's (who did not read the message) world-space will be up for stewardship. If you would like to become the steward for her world-space, PM Ryona or me.

Spectre's (who did not read the message) world-space will be stewarded by me until his eventual and seemingly unlikely return. I am stewarding this world-space for the sole reason that it is a major part of the Valinyx thread.

Gunneh (who read the message and did not respond) has asked several times to come back into the role-play and then...does nothing. So assume he will not be joining. His lands remain under the stewardship of Dax.

Again, any questions or concerns, feel free to PM me.

[Bird of Hermes]

> Alos is from this point on an NPC.
> Alos will be controlled by a council of three: Kalon the creator, Bird of Hermes who stewards the planes, and Dax, who has IC connection with Kalon's world-space. (If Dax or Bird of Hermes refuses, I will find someone else).
> Kalon cannot have two world-spaces, so the light plane is NOT under his control. However, it can be stewarded by the council.

I am glad a decision has been made on Alos. I will be happy to help with the council. I hope that this move to make him an NPC will allow this role-play to move forward.

[Dax]

Well, that takes care of that. I am also happy to be part of the council. I'm happy that we are all getting stuff done at a good pace, now.

One last OOC thing, though: I thought Kalon AND I were steward of Am. Does this mean that now it is only me? It would probably be much simpler to have just one person stweard Am, and the other take care of Eternity's stuff.

So, moving on the IC... Expect a post in Sretin for tonight. I, as with Chain, have decided that Eternity's characters will make landfall, be greeted by the Vatiennien riders, then get attacked by Zombies. Eternity's characters will then flee into the wilderness, never to be seen again (and possibly giving an opening if Eternity ever decides to come back, like Plague mentioned to me on Chat, if allowed, etc. It just seemed 'meh' to have them killed)... and done.

Just wanted to let you all know what was happening to Eternity's people.

[Kalon Ordona II]

Sounds good. I'll just close up my end with some brief responses.

First off, I don't have any ill will at all toward you, Plague. As I said before, I greatly appreciate your efforts. Please don't be afraid to do exactly like you're doing. You brought up some great points, and I had overlooked a few things. My previous statement wasn't intended so much as a barrier to further discussion as a delineation of my then-current position on the issue. I appreciated the understanding in your response.

As for creating hordes to be decimated, I'm afraid I don't understand as much as I'd like to. That they might be defeated in the "end" shouldn't be as depressing as that. Maybe what you need are some guys on the "good" side, too? Or make ways for some of the bad guys to turn good? One can always make more bad guys, if we're worried about having enough of a challenge.

What if, like, all the players with "good" world-spaces made some "bad" creatures for Morgarath's army, and all the players with "bad" species make some "good" APC's or NPC's for whatever races they like. It might breed some understanding, or something. I dunno, just brainstorming. I wouldn't mind making something awesome just for the sake of someone else killing it in character.

As for my sort-of double world-space, I guess I didn't realize it was happening, and then other people were controlling extra stuff, and it sorta grew like that. I like the decision, Silvone.

I did think Dax and I were doing Am together. Were you changing that? The idea of us both doing it together was that because it's so closely tied to and influenced by our respective world-spaces in character, it makes sense for the two of us to collaborate in its stewardship. *shrug* I'm open.


Dax and Hermes, I'll send you some PM's to start discussions of Alos and the Light Plane.

[Dax]

I was re-reading the Sretin posts, and there seems to be confusion on the time of day. Some people have posted as it being night, others midday.

I forget what we agreed on, if anything, but I did believe it was midday... until recently.

So, since most people in their post wrote it as night, IE Chain, Ryona, Lady, I do believe it is night time!

We can attribute our ease to see everything due to a very, very bright full moon.

So, again, in Sretin, it is night time. Kalon, you need to edit a word or two in your post.

[Kalon Ordona II]

I thought the night ended and morning came. I based my time of day on yours and Eternity's posts, if I remember correctly. Hang on, I'll edit this post with references if I find what I'm talking about.

[Dax]

I didn't hold reference to the time of day in my post. Ryona checked when she made her own post.

I think it would probably be the best if everything was going on at roughly the same time so we don't have multiple time lines in one thread.

Edit: So yah, its night time.

[Kalon Ordona II]

This post was made before the others.

... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ...

Sretin: Offshore
Present Day

...

...

The ocean trip was nearing it's end though. While in the first week of travel, they had been well, the second and third week had not been so lucky. Two storms hailed in from the north and sent the two Apahov off course. Yet the stars led them west again, and with a little extra time tacked onto their calculated journey, they foresaw the coast in the distance after twenty-one days. It was perhaps mid-day, the sun overhead and well.

...

"Zafir." Amala's voice came forth from her as she narrowed her eyes- feather-like lashes hiding her two-toned irises from the sun. "There is something on the shoreline." She said. Her eyes studied it, studied the bodies hunched over and walking around. Elderly humans or something else. They looked sick. Was there a plague on the western world? She had only heard stories of the western world and its people, but this was far from something she'd been told by her predecessors.

...

Immediately afterward came the battle on the beach, which is when my post takes place. I planned it to take place that time, so I looked at this post of Eternity's before I posted, to find out what time of day it was. Midday, unless we retcon. Since this post came first, I'm inclined to support it regardless of subsequent posts.

Ryona's nighttime post seems to have taken place the night before the Arpahov battle with the Ghouls on the beach in Zin at midday with soldiers coming to help.

[Loki]

As for creating hordes to be decimated, I'm afraid I don't understand as much as I'd like to. That they might be defeated in the "end" shouldn't be as depressing as that. Maybe what you need are some guys on the "good" side, too? Or make ways for some of the bad guys to turn good? One can always make more bad guys, if we're worried about having enough of a challenge.

What if, like, all the players with "good" world-spaces made some "bad" creatures for Morgarath's army, and all the players with "bad" species make some "good" APC's or NPC's for whatever races they like. It might breed some understanding, or something. I dunno, just brainstorming. I wouldn't mind making something awesome just for the sake of someone else killing it in character.

I vote we stop looking at things as being good and bad, since those terms are relative anyways. This isn't a battle of good vs evil, its an RP designed around the relationships between nations. In my mind, Alos' direct involvement with the Material Plane is ultimately no different from Morgie's save for the element backing them. By that sense, arguing that Morgie is evil is also arguing that Alos is evil since they are basically after the same goal: spreading the influence of their power for ideals they regard as being right.

That way we disregard any outcomes based upon an individual's thoughts on the whole "good always overcomes evil" mentality. By doing so, discussions become less personal and more about logical/reasonable outcomes based upon known factors and player collaboration. To force outcomes within an RP only hinders the purpose of character development; an aspect that is crucial for establishing depth and realism to the story. From my personal experiences as a GM, I find that RPs should be built like a well designed building appropriate in scale.

[Incoming engineering tangent]

One of the first things I learned as a Structural Engineer is that buildings are practically living entities that move, shift, and even breathe. I feel that RPs are the same. To design a building that is absolutely rigid and solid will cause it to literally tear itself apart even if it is entirely empty within. With larger buildings, temperature effects (plot) literally cause the building to shrink and expand at different intervals that, without flexible joints, would cause tremendous internal forces that have compromised the structural integrity bringing about catastrophic results. And that is just from the building itself, without a single load being applied. Once you bring in people (players) and loads (character development) the building will move and shift. If the joints were rigid, all the energy from the applied loads will not be absorbed/dampened, meaning that every single force traveling through the structure will put tremendous strain throughout the building until it inevitably reaches the point of failing.

To sum up with less engineering terms: an RP and a building need an established structure to allow it to work, but if things are too rigid, it becomes just as dangerous as if it wasn't built securely enough.

[/engineering tangent]

Now, I'm not arguing that the story itself lacks flexibility; there are tons of side plots going on that clearly proves the contrary. But as far as how things will end once the dust settles on the massive battleground, it should be a matter of compromise and constant tweaking as the story develops. From what I could tell, the common denominator that brings about most of the stress and arguments is when people approach the impending conflicts from a "this is how I will win" state of mind and "my [insert force/army/ability] is able to overcome your [insert force/army/ability]" approach. This approach is logically flawed since nobody wants to lose, but it is impossible for everybody to win in the traditional sense and ultimately leads to a never ending arms race that eventually brings about situations similar to the example above.

Instead, we should focus more on a "how will this develop my race as a whole" direction, where even in "defeat" a player becomes stronger or otherwise contributes to the development of their nation. For example, it has already been decided between Plague and myself that the Khajiiti will be run out of their homeland of Kvatch. This was a result of rational discussion about what outcome made the most sense that then led to a compromise. Even though I technically "lost" the battle, I will walk away with a means to deter the Tynir from doing so in the future, a chance to relocate my people to a new home, and more potential for character/nation development than had I managed to defend my land. Do I hold any negative feelings/resentment for "losing" the war? Not at all, because I ultimately gain more from the "loss" and that is really what all this is about. Nobody will "win" Emoria. It's impossible, because it is a living world created by a collection of minds, not a video game with a final boss. It is a story to be built upon and whose ultimate goal is to develop your nation/characters; which is not done by winning wars or by being more powerful than your enemies, but by overcoming adversity and the obstacles that get in the way.

I humbly ask all who read through this somewhat lengthy opinion (thank you for taking the time to do so by the way) to consider which direction you are approaching things from: the "how to win" or the "how to grow" state of mind. The answer shouldn't be too hard to figure out; reflect back to your interactions with other players. Have you ever seriously entertained the idea of losing on a grander scale? Are you willing to lose you most powerful character(s) to obtain what you strive for? If not, then I encourage you to consider the possibility, since nothing is obtained without equivalent sacrifice. I'm not referring to the sacrifice Kalon suggested above, where a race or entity is made with the intention to fall. That is nothing at all like having your primary race/character fall; it'd be like comparing the loss of a Hollywood prop to your home. I'm talking about sacrificing things of value to you and your nation; something that will bring about change within your nation and the people within, bringing about development and plot.

[Kalon Ordona II]

I did put the good and bad in quotes, you know.
Arguing for relativism is the same as arguing for absolutism. That's the whole reason for the Deliberate Unknown principle, as I like to call it.

Your ideas on growth-centered role-playing, flexibility, and world-space development, though, I heartily agree with.

[Dax]

Yah, I was kind of preferring it would be midday, and I distinctly remember having a discussion about this, I just really can't remember if it was Ryona and Lady who were in a different time line, etc.

[Kalon Ordona II]

Their posts just came the night before the daytime ones, as far as I can tell.

[Loki]

I did put the good and bad in quotes, you know.

Putting quotes around them does not negate their meaning. A nation that is going to win because it is deemed as "good" is no different than a nation that is going to win because it is deemed as good.

As for creating hordes to be decimated, I'm afraid I don't understand as much as I'd like to. That they might be defeated in the "end" shouldn't be as depressing as that.

What if, like, all the players with "good" world-spaces made some "bad" creatures for Morgarath's army, and all the players with "bad" species make some "good" APC's or NPC's for whatever races they like. It might breed some understanding, or something. I dunno, just brainstorming. I wouldn't mind making something awesome just for the sake of someone else killing it in character.

That right there is a prime example. Why should the defeat of one army/nation be any less depressing than another? Why should Alos' death be any more significant than Morgie's death? What I'm saying is that no outcome should ever be decided with the morals and values of a nation in mind because they are just as equal in value to their counterparts. If Kalon's nation and its allies are to overcome MotN and its allies, it should be done because of it is a rational outcome based around the actions of the characters involved and not because one side is "good"/good and the other is "evil"/evil. As far as I can tell, that has been one of the main reasons MotN was set up to fall from the very beginning. Instead, it should be no more absolute than MotN may fall, pending on how the story plays out.

[Gadreille]

My internet crapped out on me, so this was aimed a while back:

As for Am, really it doesn't matter who is stewarding. We just need someone in control. If you want co-stewardship, that’s fine, it is usually just easier for other people to have one person to report to when they have a question than two. But really, it doesn't matter.

I don't know what to do about eternity's stuff...but perhaps we can just make it NPC and let it sit for a while. It's not going to hurt us, really.

It is getting crazy, us having to keep up with the abandoned worldspaces. I will be much more skeptical before allowing people to join in the future.

As for Sretin, I think we might literally be role playing different times. Like, what is happening at night was during the night after those role playing in the day time. But I would have to re-read those to tell you for sure.

Also, expect the info thread to go under revision (again.) I've got a lot of work ahead of me...

Addition: As for why we set up MoN to fall, it was because we needed a plot that everyone would agree to follow. Like you said, no one wants their stuff destroyed, so we had to find somewhere to go. A good story has as much destruction as growth. With so many people dropping, we have plenty of worldspaces that can fall without hurting anyone's feelings. I also donated mine for destruction, because I really don't care one way or another.

However, I humbly ask that we work on moving on from this discussion. It was kind of supposed to end with Silvone's post...I understand you wanting to clarify stuff, but lets not dwell on things we may never agree on.

[Dax]

Stewardship: Alright, stay with the status-quo and lets just let Eternity' stuff go NPC for awhile, since it's slightly irrelevant as to what happens to them right now.

ALSO! Posted in Sretin! I suck at copy-pasting, so refresh the page or revisit it, because I forgot some 2-3 paragraphs at the end. I just added them now.

[Sponsored content]